Why do we help?

[scrogdog]

If it's all about the money, then why isn't Kuwait a current US annexation?

Please explain how our tentacles are wrapped around Iraqi oil.

Please explain the natural resources we are after in Afghanistan. Poppies?

What realized monetary gain did bombing Libya afford us?

[glennac]

If it's all about the money, then why isn't Kuwait a current US annexation?

Please explain how our tentacles are wrapped around Iraqi oil.

Please explain the natural resources we are after in Afghanistan. Poppies?

What realized monetary gain did bombing Libya afford us?

Absolutely nothing except more hatred from the anti West Muslims whom we have helped and they have installed governments who hate us more. Thank you very much

[coolwhip]

We have a 1 billion dollar new embassy in Baghdad with about a thousand employees. Do you think it is there for the sand?

Why are we in Afghanistan?

America has wanted a new government in Afghanistan since at least 1998, three years before the attacks on 11 September 2001. The official report from a meeting of the U.S. Government's foreign policy committee on 12 February 1998, available on the U.S. Government website, confirms that the need for a West-friendly government was recognised long before the War on Terror that followed September 11th:

"The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines...
The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our
support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the
project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any
governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,
Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do
support the project."
[ U.S. House of Reps., "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]


"The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,
Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]


"CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized
Afghanistan Government is in place."
[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

We need a good puppet there!

You see, the US, Britain and a few others do not like oil rich nations oil nationalized. In fact, one of the CIA's first missions was to overthrow Irans democratically elected president because he saw it fit for Iran to control its own oil...and this pi$$ed off Britain and the US (bed buddies).

[scrogdog]

Absolutely nothing except more hatred from the anti West Muslims whom we have helped and they have installed governments who hate us more. Thank you very much

Right, well we are currently embroiled in a war of ideologies. We are never going to be comfortable with the opposing ideology. Par for the course.

On the other hand, when you depose a dictator and then say to the people "you are free now"... that's exactly what it means.

Some seem to confuse "you are free" with "you are now free to love the US".

Arab spring is merely the beginnings of positive change. However, I'm not here to say that it was due to US actions. Too early yet to make those determinations so we'll have to leave that matter for dispassionate historians of the future. But impatience will not serve us well.

Social evolution takes every bit as long as biological evolution. It is difficult to measure progress or regression in a single life time. That's why we become grumpy old men; we wanted to change the world but it doesn't feel like we did.

But maybe we made some waves that will ripple forward in a positive way in the future. Arab spring may be just the beginning.

Or the whole shootin' match could fall flat on its arse.

[scrogdog]

We have a 1 billion dollar new embassy in Baghdad with about a thousand employees. Do you think it is there for the sand?

It only makes sense considering the huge investment we've made in Iraq. Why would we NOT want an embassy? Should we then close our embassy in, say, Japan? What about ALL of them? Why even have embassies at all?

Why are we in Afghanistan?

America has wanted a new government in Afghanistan since at least 1998, three years before the attacks on 11 September 2001. The official report from a meeting of the U.S. Government's foreign policy committee on 12 February 1998, available on the U.S. Government website, confirms that the need for a West-friendly government was recognised long before the War on Terror that followed September 11th:

"The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines...
The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our
support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the
project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any
governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,
Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do
support the project."
[ U.S. House of Reps., "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]


"The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,
Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]


"CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized
Afghanistan Government is in place."
[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

We need a good puppet there!

Ok, why don't you lay out the economics for us. Keep in mind that a single cruise missile costs half a million; that's one weapon.

Please show us your profit analysis in terms of money spent and the profit plan from an oil pipeline going forward. Don't forget to factor in engineering and construction along with the military cost.

You can't be serious.

[coolwhip]

Why should I...I have better things to do...like wash my hair.

Besides, If I did then you would just emulate manco and say something utterly cheeky and outrageous again.

[scrogdog]

What's so outrageous about asking you to back up your argument?

http://costofwar.com/en/

Cost so far, over 500 billion.

So, just like when we sell a highly efficient furnace and then show the customer how long it will be before it pays for itself, all I'm asking you is to demonstrate how a single pipeline recovers the cost of war, engineering and construction and on top of that shows a profit.

Your claim; your ball.

[coolwhip]

I did back it up, but you continue to digress into other things as always until the original intent becomes lost in the thread.

Im sure you are aware of all the financial facts when it comes to our foreign policies. Im also sure that you are sure that all matters of finance are released to the public so we may hold those responsible for their unscrupulous deeds....like Goldman Sachs.

[scrogdog]

I did back it up, but you continue to digress into other things as always until the original intent becomes lost in the thread.

Im sure you are aware of all the financial facts when it comes to our foreign policies. Im also sure that you are sure that all matters of finance are released to the public so we may hold those responsible for their unscrupulous deeds....like Goldman Sachs.

There is no need for data that precise. Here's what we do know;

Saudi Arabia; the number 1 oil exporter in the world had a TOTAL oil revenue of 185 billion in 2010. Total OPEC oil revenue was about 785 billion.

The numbers just don't work, dude. There's no way you can show that the incursion in to Afghanistan was motivated by monetary gain. The kinds of numbers required aren't even close to reality.

[coolwhip]

Tell that to the House of Representatives and see what they say.

[scrogdog]

Tell that to the House of Representatives and see what they say.

Are you suggesting that I need an economics lesson from a congressperson?

[tunnel_rat]

If we are getting all these "goodies " from helping out other countries, why the hell is our own country going down the septic like nobody's business? Gas approaching $6 a gallon, oil conspiracy my a$$....get a clue.

[barbar]

I agree that its usually about the money. But lately I'm getting confused on why we are attacking or supporting who we are. Thats why I feel we should just stay home more and let them work it out for themselves. They resent us either way so why bother?

I dont think there are many in America that feel Iran is too big or powerful. I think that many in America are just getting tired of attacking anything that moves. If we decide to take on Iran we could easily do to them what we did to Iraq or Afganistan. Sure, some other countries might object but would do nothing to stop us.

it is more than just money directly, but supply chains, influence.
I think Iran, would be a little more difficult than Iraq. Only that I think the Iranians resolve would be somewhat stronger than the Iraquies.
Should you go to these countries, that is a hard one, it is the soldiers who pay, not the decision makers. Americans do "seem" a little "one eyed" if not the american way, then it is not the right way. This where the hate comes from, not the effort you put in to help! (Not an insult) i do not see life as black or white, just different shades of gray or shyte coloured.