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Thread: Satan Santorum

  1. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    24 hours have passed and they are on to the new talking point.
    Post some obtuse drivel and never clarify your thoughts and you blame others for moving to another subject. Typical liberal tactic never come to the point and flesh out a subject.

  2. #41
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    I guess the conservative mind can't comprehend complex ideas, it's OK everyone else understands.
    Fox News - Rich people paying rich people to tell middle class people to blame the poor.

  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    Santorum - theocracy - no place in a democratic republic. But I will be accused of being a Marxist, communist, fascist, atheist no count if I point out how our liberties would be trampled by this man or those of his ilk. Question: Is is Constitutional to require a patient to undergo a procedure that is not medically warranted?
    I doubt seriously that anyone on this forum could fathom the meaning behind this post including you since you have been unable to clarify your point yet.

    Your posts never have any substantive meaning or thought out relevant point.

    Several of the other liberals on this forum at least make an attempt at relevance and rational thought.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    I guess the conservative mind can't comprehend complex ideas, it's OK everyone else understands.
    Complex yes we can understand complex thought; minimalist, incomplete, ill defined drivel no!

  5. #44
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    Seems simple to me. Do you think the government has the constitutional power to force a citizen to have an unnecessary medical procedure? Give it another shot - it really isn't that complex.
    Fox News - Rich people paying rich people to tell middle class people to blame the poor.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    Seems simple to me. Do you think the government has the constitutional power to force a citizen to have an unnecessary medical procedure? Give it another shot - it really isn't that complex.
    Simple answer no they do not.

    Now answer my question what procedure are you refering to.

  7. #46
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    The proposed procedure that brought this to my attention was the transvaginal ultrasound in Virginia. My concern is twofold, one, if we allow the government this kind of control over a legal procedure where does it stop? and two, from all appearances this was a political tactic to curtail access to abortion to satisfy a particular voting bloc. The way I see it the GOP is trying to craft legislation to buy votes, this time they seriously miscalculated the blow back and are in full retreat.
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  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    The proposed procedure that brought this to my attention was the transvaginal ultrasound in Virginia. My concern is twofold, one, if we allow the government this kind of control over a legal procedure where does it stop? and two, from all appearances this was a political tactic to curtail access to abortion to satisfy a particular voting bloc. The way I see it the GOP is trying to craft legislation to buy votes, this time they seriously miscalculated the blow back and are in full retreat.
    I knew where you were going with this sure took a lot to get it out of you.

    We passed this bill in Texas last year and so far it has held up to scrutiny. I do not know about the Virginia law but in Texas the bill requires an abortion doctor to perform an ultrasound and make it and a recording of the baby’s heartbeat available to the mother. The mother has to take 24 hrs. to make a decision one to see the ultrasound or hear the heartbeat. They are not forced to just have it offered, after 24 hrs. they can choose to have an abortion if they still wish. From what I understand many have chosen to have the child instead of killing the child.

    Now any legitimate doctor (I do not consider any doctor that performs an abortion except under very few instances legitimate) that is going to perform an abortion is already going to perform an ultrasound prior to the killing of the child; therefore nothing is being forced on the patient by the government.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    The proposed procedure that brought this to my attention was the transvaginal ultrasound in Virginia. My concern is twofold, one, if we allow the government this kind of control over a legal procedure where does it stop? and two, from all appearances this was a political tactic to curtail access to abortion to satisfy a particular voting bloc. The way I see it the GOP is trying to craft legislation to buy votes, this time they seriously miscalculated the blow back and are in full retreat.
    Before a doctor is allowed to mutilate a living baby in the womb while it's legs are still kicking, is it too much to ask for an ultra sound to be done?

    The woman can always refuse the ultrasound and not have the living moving baby butchered in her womb.

    God help us.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    Seems simple to me. Do you think the government has the constitutional power to force a citizen to have an unnecessary medical procedure?
    Like getting an abortion? Yeah, it may be legal because the SCOTUS said it is but no Congress actually passed a law saying it was legal. And, for that matter, I would even question the Constitutionality of said procedure since the Constitution sees life as an inalienable right.

    So, if you're asking if performing an ultrasound to prevent abortion is Constitutional or not, I would have to say it's as Constitutional as the procedure it's trying to prevent.
    WHY?

  11. #50
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    Laws and morality are NOT the same.

    And one CANNOT legislate morality... it is a choice; A choice to do the right thing regardless of whether it is convenient or not. This is also called maturity.

    Just because the law says this is or is not bad... or this is or is not good... does NOT make it so. Morality is a personal conviction of what is right and wrong.

    The legal system of the land was NOT meant to define morality... it was and is meant to pass judgement on folks who choose to not make the right decisions in their lives... as a deterrant to those folks doing the wrong things again and again.

    BIG difference.
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  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    I knew where you were going with this sure took a lot to get it out of you.

    We passed this bill in Texas last year and so far it has held up to scrutiny. I do not know about the Virginia law but in Texas the bill requires an abortion doctor to perform an ultrasound and make it and a recording of the baby’s heartbeat available to the mother. The mother has to take 24 hrs. to make a decision one to see the ultrasound or hear the heartbeat. They are not forced to just have it offered, after 24 hrs. they can choose to have an abortion if they still wish. From what I understand many have chosen to have the child instead of killing the child.

    Now any legitimate doctor (I do not consider any doctor that performs an abortion except under very few instances legitimate) that is going to perform an abortion is already going to perform an ultrasound prior to the killing of the child; therefore nothing is being forced on the patient by the government.
    My argument is not with this particular instance of government intrusion in to what is a personal decision it is how it is used as a political football to garner votes. The procedure is legal whether you or I feel it is moral is another discussion entirely. I just can't see how the same people that feel requiring health insurance is unconstitutional feel that legislating unneeded medical procedures is perfectly OK.
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  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    My argument is not with this particular instance of government intrusion in to what is a personal decision it is how it is used as a political football to garner votes. The procedure is legal whether you or I feel it is moral is another discussion entirely. I just can't see how the same people that feel requiring health insurance is unconstitutional feel that legislating unneeded medical procedures is perfectly OK.
    You completely miss understand the reason for the legislation. I know personally one of the State Senators that wrote the Texas Bill. It is about wanting young women to have a full understanding of the consequence of their actions. Abortions are a huge business (cash cow) for the doctors that perform them. They and Planned Parenthood have no vested interest in offering troubled vulnerable young women an option. If a young woman looks at an ultrasound video/picture and hears the heartbeat she at least has a full understanding of the true cost of her actions. I remember seeing the ultrasound of my granddaughter and it brings home immediately that there is a life there.

    A doctor is going to do the ultrasound regardless, he needs to know what is going on inside; even if he does not care about the child he wants to protect himself from a lawsuit. Therefore the state is not really forcing anything on the woman.

    As to the legality sorry not true that it is legal, this is a states right issue not federal and the Supreme Court had not legal justification for ROE V WADE.

    I understand you just do not get it but that is what this current election and the TEA PARTY is all about getting back to states’ rights.

    Now the federal government does not have the right to force a medical procedure on someone but a state may in certain instances. For instance there are several religious groups that feel it is wrong to use a doctor or medical care. That is fine as long as they do not put a child in jeopardy however if a child has a medical condition that requires medical care or they will die then the state has the right to step in.

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