Bryant Furnace, AC & Pump, Heater blows hot/cold, HIGH BILLS, repair here zilions

[Guitarcher]

Greetings, as I sit by my nice warm woodstove which we purchased due to our inability to have the repair guys fix our furnace, and our inability to trust them any longer; I am glad that I found you. I'll try to cut to the chase here - we've had repair guys out throughout 2011, say 5-6 times... maybe 9-10 times... They've replaced parts, done this & that, rewired this or that, cleaned my system and my coils, yet still, my problem exists. Last time when they came out it was July, my pump fan no longer spun and the guy came out and flipped a switch, now it spins... Sometimes... But not like it used to (by this I mean that the entire running of the system is DIFFERENT from the way it used to run when all was well). Still however, the problem is not fixed and I have hot/cold air and ridiculously high heating bills so we bought the woodstove. Their last claim was that they needed to pull my coils all the way out and deep clean (weld/unweld & clean). We no longer trust them.

Once upon a time we had a great system. The pump was awesome and slowly heated the home. Running it at an even temperature, the home was warmed with low cost. That was some time ago... Now ever since the remodel... Life is very different. It started in December of 2010 when a wire from the thermostat was accidentally cut during the remodel. It caused the heater to blow a fuse. Guy came out, replaced the fuse, heater was fixed. One week later, yellow wire from thermostat came undone (during remodel) and when they came to fix it, wires were so taunt that instead, the guy rewired things. Didn't need yellow, had an extra brown. HE went around to the pump, the furnace, the thermostat and rewired things. Told us that the heater would run differently. THIS IS WHERE WE THINK THE PROBLEM IS but they don't agree and they never put it back. They say there is NO DIFFERENCE. But the guy said it would cycle differently Man oh man. We had them out in February to clean the furnace (after the remodel) and they did. Nevertheless, this new problem of the furnace blowing warm AND cold air persisted. They told us, the AC runs while the heater is on. (OH THIS IS NEw...) We paid for some parts to the pump and they supposedly fixed it. NOPE. They came out and did something else -- I think -- and still not fixed. NOW by this time, I seem like the crazy person and they disbelieve me -- they come out for free by this time... (I pay for parts) and I borrowed a digital heat thermometer thingie and I RECORDED the temperatures. NOW they believed me. The heat came out of the vent increasing increasing increasing decreasing decreasing decreasing (so on and so forth) it was a roller coaster. They suggested they might bring out some sort of data thing to find out what was wrong but they never did. They brought out a remote heater thermostat and the first two-three days it was great; but then back to the normal BAD rollercoaster. Finally in July the pump stopped spinning and the guy flipped a switch. HE TOLD US that the problem is with the coils that they need to be deep cleaned. We could no longer trust them. It would cost us approx $$$ for that, so we bought a certified woodstove w/pipe (used) for that price.

Sometimes we need the heater. We almost always have it set at 66 degrees so the house will maintain that temp if the woodstove goes out. So to get my heater to take us up to 67... IT BLOWS hot/COLD/hot/COLD same story.

We have the Bryant MODEL FV4ANF005
R410A is the puron thingie

I WOULD LOVE TO GET YOUR help/advice so that we can set the next repair men going in the right direction.

Thanks so much!

[jpsmith1cm]

Have you tried getting a second opinion on this system?

It honestly sounds to me as if your current contractor is guessing.

[Guitarcher]

No we never got a second opinion. Once they talked about hooking up some sort of data collecting device; but alas, they never did. At this point I'm starting from scratch so to speak, I will definitely be paying full price for whoever comes out now. We've already put out a lot of money and yet our main problem is still the same problem.

[hvacmike85]

sounds like somebody is trying to sell you a coil clean job that you already had done. I 100% agree with above you need to get a new company out, I would suggest a smaller local company who wants your furure buisness and not just a quick buck now. Another thing to think about from our view is once something happens to your system you start to notice more things wrong than ever before and sometimes think things are not right and I have seen some stress about their systems operation when in fact it has always done what it does, not saying thats you but with the info you gave It's hard to tell

[Guitarcher]

Thank you. The thing is, this one tech that came out (and numerous different techs came out), the one who did the rewiring, told us something like the "auxilliary heat" would look like it was on, but that it wouldn't really be on.

((I was so mad at that because of the huge increase in cost when the aux heat is on.)) That makes me wonder if that's what's up right now. If I could make a proper guess, (with NO HVAC knowledge - lol), I'd guess that:

1. He rewired our system horribly wrong. (they totally deny this)
or 2. When the yellow wire came undone, it hurt something in the system *(it didn't blow a fuse that time but wasn't working).
or 3. Whatever is supposed to heat when the pump is on -- doesn't heat so it runs on auxilliary heat (the expensive stuff) please note that we have NO indication of that being in progress but we've been so burned by the bill (nearing $400 when in the past it would have easily been like $276 at the highest).

Let's say I run heat only and want to get my house to be one-two-three degrees warmer. We can expect the heater to run for nearly one hour at times having run hot/cold/hot/cold while trying to get to the desired temperature; however, it might not ever get there.

Now if I turn on the heater the pump immediately comes on outside. Does it spin? Maybe yes - maybe no (Pacific NW weather temps). Say I'm keeping it at 66. Happily it will soon go off having reached 66 usually. Now if I want to go 67 that's another story. Something NEW & DIFFERENT that happens... Just before it shuts off; I can hear something close in my heater vent. It sounds as if a door of some kind of suction or blowing closes - imagine a quick door suction sound and now the wind stops blowing through the heater in a moment. Didn't used to do this either.



What would the data thing be called? I would LOVE to be able to ask a repair tech the right questions or ask for the right thing so that we don't continue in this current chaos. One more thought... I feel like these guys have messed our system up so much that it is totally out of kilter. How would we be able to find anyone to get it back to what it used to be since it has been rewired?

[Damien]

Where in the PAC NW?

[Guitarcher]

Pacific NW, south of Canada

[Damien]

You need a new company.

What's the heat pump model number?

[Guitarcher]

Bryant model Fv4ANF005
R 410A
Heat pump is a bryant quantum plus

[Stamas]

Add another vote for another co.
Check the contractor map here and see if one is near you.

[Damien]

Can you see an led light for your elect. furnace?

[Guitarcher]

The light is just above the door to the two big fat metal filter devices. I have to turn off the switch by the doors before opening them and after cleaning the large filters turn the switch back on and then the light is green I think. The filters are thin but the other filter things are about 3-4 inches thick with line like fishing line in them. The heater is a very poor design, as dust has been able to easily flow to the coils in the past; thus having them cleaned.

[woody19]

We really dont have enough info but from what you are saying it kind of sounds like the heat pump is coming on and trying to heat, then it may be going into defrost which puts it back into the cooling mode and should bring on your aux heater to temper the air during the defrost cycle. If the heat pump isnt working properly the aux heat will come on and, yes, thats when your bill will go up. As others have said you need to get another co. out there and have it diagnosed. I dont think the problem will be a major one but it does need to be correctly diagnosed. let us know what happens.

[beshvac]

I am not sure of the problem either, not enough information.
Quite frankly it sounds like a service company jumping thru hoops because someone doesn't want the heatstrips to run. Also sounds like the electric heat is now bypassed so it doesn't come on during defrosts or maybe now has an OD temp sensor.

[Guitarcher]

When the time comes that I do get the new repairman out; I'll be sure to have him read all of this first; then I won't have to explain myself again, and he'll have your ideas -- I really appreciate that. I've tried so hard over the last year to get these guys to listen to me, to just make it right. The bill tells the story however. I can look back at a day when we've used the heater and KW usage that day is outrageous. So we mostly burn wood now. But I want the heater to work like it did in the good old days.

Heat strips vs coil -- I would like to understand the difference.

Does the fan ever spin backward on the pump?

It used to clearly go into defrost, now I never see it/hear it.

Really appreciate your thoughts.

p.s. Why would someone not want my heat strips to run?

p.s.s. The very last guy out here in April who filpped the pump fan switch, telling me something about it being for "commercial use" blah blah blah... was the same guy who decided we needed a coil deep clean $XXX But I think I found my coil online brand new for $XXX (not sure if it's the right one).

????

[Guitarcher]

We're in the Puget Sound.

[isuredo]

sounds like some of the changeable things on the air handler control board were switched for whatever reason, get an authorized bryant or carrier dealer to help you

[Guitarcher]

RUNNING A TEST -- WHAT DO YOU THINK (Second paragraph)
I was so frusturated with the situation that I actually called Bryant; they know and like the people who helped us; (the people who helped us are really very friendly; but alas, were unable to fix our problem and say we need to have our coil deep cleaned -- that they need to actually remove it and clean it and weld it back together -- even though they cleaned it for us in February... We have not even used the heater that much; I wonder if drywall dust may have caused the problem, but alas, plastic draping was set up to reduce drywall dust, does this solution sound bogus?)

Today I had the opportunity to sit and chat with an electrician (owns his own company) and though he doesn't specialize in heaters, understands the principals of heat pumps/heaters etc., and he said it sounds like possible two wires got reversed and that the pump might be spinning backward, so that when air is sent to my coil it isn't ambient but cool, causing my coil to need to use the auxilliary heat to heat my house.

Soon I plan to get my dad's special thermometer and take readings while I heat the house and let you all know how it goes. Currently I am switching on my A/C just to see if the pump fan spins the other way or what even happens. Switched it on A/C after a heat cycle completed at 3:21 pm. Hmmm we'll see what happens. 3:23 the a/c came on spinning the SAME DIRECTION as when the pump is heating -- I will verify this soon!!! I'm waiting to see how cold the cool air is... That's nice cool air. OK I just upped the temp so that the a/c goes off. When this completes I'll go back and turn it back to heat and we'll see which direction the pump spins. This sure is interesting. BTW in a/c the pump fan turned clockwise. OKay now it's 3:26 pm all is quiet, just turned the heater on (it's at 66) and I just turned it to 68degrees and now we'll see what happens. Now the heat has kicked in at 3:29 pm and the PUMP IS SPINNING CLOCKWISE.

HAS THE ELECTRICIAN I SPOKE WITH POSSIBLY FOUND MY PROBLEM??? IS THIS CORRECT THAT THE FAN SHOULD SPIN ONE WAY FOR HEAT AND THE OTHER DIRECTION FOR A/C ????? thank you in advance for feedback!

Quantum Plus Bryant Pump "Highly Efficient" Puron

Thanks again to everyone for all your ideas - I intend to pass these along.

[jpsmith1cm]

No, the fan shouldn't reverse on its own.

If it does, there is a problem.

[Guitarcher]

So then the pump fan should run clockwise both in A/C and in HEAT? (thanks