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  1. #1

    12 hour heat pump run time in NC

    A replacement, Carrier, 4ton, h/p was installed 12/21/10. When the heat came on in Nov '11, we noticed it ran a lot. 5,7,10,14,17 hrs @ a time. The joker from Carier said it wasn't unusual for a unit to run 12 hours. Where? Alaska? Surely not NC piedmont.

    The outdoor unit stays on. It changes from heat to defrost with the o/d fan sill running. If that fan stops, the airhandler runs for 90 secs then the o/d unit kicks back on. It cycles warm air-cool air -then warm again. If it would just get to 69o and turn off there would be no problem but one of the fans is constantly running, usually, the o/d .
    I get irritated and turn the thing off but that doesn't solve the problem, long term. Actually, when I turn it off the house temp rises and will stay the same for 3-4 hours.

    17 trips to fix it since 12/26/11. The thermostat, heat strips and blower module have been replaced. Leaks in the ducts sealed. Pressures checked.

    With each "fix" the unit works gr8 for a day or two then its back to long run times. A monitor's on the o/d unit since Feb 6th. They said I had to leave it running and I have, until this morning 02/12. Outside its 23o. Set on 69o, it was 66. The unit had been running since 6:30 last night! I turned it off @ 6am. Temp immeniately rose to 68o.

    The guys from the company are pleasant. Carrier's been guiding or mis-guiding them.

    I've been more than patient but enough is enough! Its been 2 months. My Duke bill would have been out of reach if I hadn't had the unit off for 3 weeks and heated with space heaters, electric blankets and gas logs.

    Suggestions are not only welcomed but encouraged. Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,978
    Sounds like a leak they can't find. I base this on the fact that each time they come out it works for a little while and then goes back to long run times.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
    Posts
    4,517
    my concern is the fact the house heats up when it is turned off
    tend to think it is a few problem starting with low voltage wiring and like was said a leak somewhere

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,978
    Quote Originally Posted by tinknocker service tech View Post
    my concern is the fact the house heats up when it is turned off
    tend to think it is a few problem starting with low voltage wiring and like was said a leak somewhere
    My understanding on the house heating up is that the o/p meant the ouside unit being turned off and using straight strip heat rather than heatpump.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,946
    Msdeb454,

    I'm going to suggest that you try a new service company.

    Look at the line in my signature to see if there is one in your area.


    Heat pumps are a bit more complex than a straight AC system, but they aren't rocket science. With some basic measurements and a little understanding, the problem should not be THIS difficult to find.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,901
    after 17 trips i would politly ask them to remove the unit and refund your money

  7. #7
    lol... I have. They tell me every avenue has to be exhausted before Carrier will replace the unit. Honestly, I'm exhausted. I'm about ready to call my lawyer.

    I think Tipsrfine might have the right idea. Maybe there is another leak. There was a large on in the side of the main truck right @ the humidifier. I'll suggest they use a heat gun, tomorrow.

    When I said the the house heats up when the unit is truned off I mean the whole unit is off, 'cause I flip the switch.
    Are these monitors electric or battery powered? I'm wondering if its still recording after 6 days. I've got to trun this thing off.

    I can't use a new service co because my free labor is with my origional company. They can't charge me labor so they're eating these service calls. its to their asvantage to get this fixed asap.

    Thanks guys for your help.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,978
    Assuming the darn thing is not actually going into cool mode, the best explanation for the house being cooler when running would be air leakage; either through leaky ductwork running through unconditioned areas of the home and/or air infiltration in/out of the home due to pressure imballances created by the blower motor causing positive/negative pressures throughout the home. Studies have shown that home that use forced air distribution systems can have 30% to 70% more energy loss due to this compared to convective heating systems.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,946
    Quote Originally Posted by msdeb454 View Post
    I can't use a new service co because my free labor is with my origional company. They can't charge me labor so they're eating these service calls. its to their asvantage to get this fixed asap.
    17 service visits isn't ASAP by any stretch of the imagination.

    Your free labor may be worth less than what you are paying for it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,841
    Has anybody checked the 4-way valve on this unit? It sure sounds like it's in cooling mode when it should be heating but he's also got the electric heaters running, thus substantially neutralizing each other. The t-stat thinks it's heating but it may not be as far as then refrigerant circuit is concerned. When he turns it off, naturally it gets warmer just due to the AC being off. If I were the service tech on this unit, I'd disconnect the customer t-stat and run the unit by wiring in my own t-stat right at the unit. If it were a leak, the outdoor unit should be frozen as it goes through a low charge situation into a zero charge situation. Is the outdoor unit even accumulating any frost in cold weather? If not, it's not heating. It sounds like the company doing the work needs a good HP tech on the job.

    I understand the OP's statement that only the installing company is handling the repairs at no charge but after 17-tries, he's got a good legal case to hire another firm and if they fix the problem, send the bill(s) to the installing company. If they balk, take them to small claims (though I seriously doubt that will be necessary) to collect your money. By the time we've gone back to a home 3-times, we get a very senior and trusted tech on the job. Sometimes these issues require a very thorough understanding of how things work when they're correct in order to troubleshoot when they're not correct. Maybe the installing company lacks that knowledge.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  11. #11
    I really don't know what they've checked. I will mention it to them when they come tomorrow. Also, about the pressure imbalance. I have a long 2700sf ranch that has a large footprint.
    Personally, I think its some computer chips that has gone bad. But what do I know?
    My installer is working with Carrier. Company service techs are telling my guys what to check.
    I am given the impression that Carrier is balking about giving me a new unit.

    Thanks so much for responding.

  12. #12

    Finally!! After 8 months, its fixed!!!!!!

    I finally got my heat pump fixed last week!!!!!!

    I contacted another HVAC company to look at my unit. Their tech found two nice sized air leaks. One going into the unit. The other coming out of the unit. I've been told that I'm "buttoned up tight". How were these leaks missed by 2 different companies and several techs? I told my install co. about the diagnosis. They fixed both leaks but when they checked the temp of the cold air return it was 6o warmer than the house. They then checked down the trunk and found it was completely separated. When they reattached the two pieces the temp immediately went down. I asked how severed they were and the answer I got was 'a pretty good distance'.

    All this time and all the replaced parts and all the service trips that the company ate could have been eliminated if someone had only checked the retrun temp.

    Glad its fixed but it still bothers me that I sent Carrier a 3 page letter in June detailing all the problems I've had with my unit and the install company. I have yet, to hear from Carrier. So much for customer service.
    btw ...I ended up contacting the BBB to my unit fixed.

    Thanks so much to everyone who tried to help.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mount Holly, NC
    Posts
    3,548
    wow, "buttoned up tight" kinda makes me wonder how any company could miss an open return!. I'm glad you found the problem. if you need anything, I'm on the map.
    The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
    The three big summer hearththrobs...
    Mel Gibson
    Dwane Johnson
    The A/C repairman

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