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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    22

    Carrier Infinity Greenspeed System Advice

    I will be pulling the trigger on the purchase and installation of a 60,000 BTU Carrier Infinity 98 modulating furnace (model #59MN7A060V17-14) with a Carrier Infinity 20 Greenspeed heat pump (model #59MN7A060V17-14). The AC coil to be included is model # CNPVP3717ATA. Can you confirm this system is matched well for the highest efficiencies?

    My home is a 20 year old two story center hall colonial with total square footage of 2200 square feet (2 x 6 exterior stud walls and insulation). Two thirds of the basement is finished and is on separate electric heat.

    I am looking for recommendations/suggestions on an Air Cleaner and humidifier. I am interested in a media filter only and was considering an Aprilaire 2410 or a Carrier media filter such as the Carrier model EZXCAB. Will the Carrier filter box marry up better with the Carrier furnace? I’ve had a Carrier EZXCAB in a previous house and was pleased. Does the Aprilaire offer any advantages over the Carrier EZXCAB?

    In regard to a humidifier, given I have a hybrid set up with heat pump heating capability, should I go with a steam humidifier to more effectively introduce moisture to the return air? Can you provide some suggestions as to my best option on a humidifier? I was considering either Carrier or Aprilaire. If a standard bypass humidifier is recommended should it be plumbed with hot water given the heat pump set up? Also, ideally I would like to use the Infinity controller to control my humidifier vs hanging an additional controller on the living room wall. Is infinity control of the humidifier easily achieved?

    I have metal ductwork with internal insulation. Should I be mandating sheet metal trunk connections with the unit or is the foil covered insulated duct material acceptable?

    Also, is it a big deal to request the furnace be connected to the natural gas line with black iron threaded pipe and a union disconnect vs the yellow trac pipe? My previous house install included a trac pipe hook up which looked sloppy given it seemed a 4 foot piece of trac pipe was used for a 2 ½’ application length.

    Sorry to ask so many questions of you professionals, but I’m hoping to get a nice clean and “tight” install. I believe establishing a good understanding on the front end can only help. Your help with this matter is greatly appreciated so I can finalize my contract as soon as possible. My Bryant 90 Plus has a cracked heat exchanger and it is tripping the roll out switch on occasion.

    Thanks again,

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    88
    Is the model # for your heat pump correct? I recommend the Aprilaire spaceguard-higher merv. tighter fit. I like the by-pass humidifier (Carrier or Aprilaire, same thing). Aprilaire recommends hot water supply. Definitly use the Infinity controller for your humidistat. I like black iron pipe for gas piping (if the original installation was done in yellow trac pipe, I will remove it and install black iron). The duct work should be sealed and insulated, but, I rarely do it because of $$$$.

    Was your old Bryant 90%??? Depending on the model # and year, you may qualify for some $$$$$.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    22
    Hawk 87, thanks for your help. My bad, the model number of the Carrier Greenspeed heatpump listed on my quote is model #25VNA036A003. Let me know if this is a well matched system to obtain the best operating efficiencies.

    Is the Aprilaire 2410 cabinet metal or plastic? My current 20 year old Spaceguard is plastic. Will the suggested Aprilaire bypass humidifier with hot water hookup perform ok when using the heatpump? Also, can you suggest an Aprilaire model number; my quote does not have that detail.

    My current Bryant Plus 90 calculates out to 90.9% efficiency given the input and output BTU’s. The model number is 398AAV036060 and the serial number is 2092A01489. I’m guessing from the serial number it was manufactured in 1989? How do I qualify for some money??

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by vkr View Post
    Hawk 87, thanks for your help. My bad, the model number of the Carrier Greenspeed heatpump listed on my quote is model #25VNA036A003. Let me know if this is a well matched system to obtain the best operating efficiencies.

    Is the Aprilaire 2410 cabinet metal or plastic? My current 20 year old Spaceguard is plastic. Will the suggested Aprilaire bypass humidifier with hot water hookup perform ok when using the heatpump? Also, can you suggest an Aprilaire model number; my quote does not have that detail.

    My current Bryant Plus 90 calculates out to 90.9% efficiency given the input and output BTU’s. The model number is 398AAV036060 and the serial number is 2092A01489. I’m guessing from the serial number it was manufactured in 1989? How do I qualify for some money??
    Is your contractor a "Carrier Factory Authorized Dealer"??? They will be able to best match your equipment for you. They should perform a "manual J" load calculation and possible "manual D" for proper duct sizing. From the model # of your old furnace, no red flags are poping up to me.

    The Aprilaire 2410 cabinet is metal.

    Every home's humidity needs are different. I have a 2 year old Carrier Infinity 3-stage furnace, 2-stage heat pump, Aprilaire 550 humidifier. My home is 44% humidity right now.

    Ask your contractor to inspect the secondary heat exchanger. I believe your furnace qualifies for up to $990 off a new furnace. Your furnace is a 1992.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    22
    Checking out the Carrier site, one of the three contractors is a Carrier Factory Authorized Dealer. However, they all performed their “manual J” and surprisingly all came up with the same furnace BTU size and heat pump size. My question regarding efficiency was more related to whether the coil was matched properly to the heat pump and furnace to insure I obtain the best HSPF and SEER ratings.

    What is the proper procedure to follow on obtaining the up to $990.00 if in fact the secondary heat exchanger has gone bad? Is there really the possibility of a refund on a 20 year old furnace? I was thinking there would be prorated issues coming into play. What’s the best way to obtain any refund that is due? Would my Carrier dealer be aware of the possibility of a refund on a Bryant furnace?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by vkr View Post
    Checking out the Carrier site, one of the three contractors is a Carrier Factory Authorized Dealer. However, they all performed their “manual J” and surprisingly all came up with the same furnace BTU size and heat pump size. My question regarding efficiency was more related to whether the coil was matched properly to the heat pump and furnace to insure I obtain the best HSPF and SEER ratings.

    What is the proper procedure to follow on obtaining the up to $990.00 if in fact the secondary heat exchanger has gone bad? Is there really the possibility of a refund on a 20 year old furnace? I was thinking there would be prorated issues coming into play. What’s the best way to obtain any refund that is due? Would my Carrier dealer be aware of the possibility of a refund on a Bryant furnace?
    I cant answer your coil question. Dont know.

    Ask your Carrier dealer about the secondary heat exchanger warranty. I'm sure they have already checked the secondary to see if it has failed. If its bad, it qualifies for $540.00 or $990.00 off the price of a new furnace (depends on the serial # weather you get $540 or $990).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    St Paul, minnesota
    Posts
    1,135

    Smile

    HSPF and SEER ratings

    AHRI certified reference # IS 4702003
    you can find it at
    http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahridirectory

    HSPF=12.2

    SEER= 18.9

    That's 2nd highest combo using CNPVP3717ATA coil. Highest uses a CNPVP4821ATA coil. HSPF goes to 12.3, but cool cap goes from 34200 to 33800 BTU'S. seer remains the same and 4821 coil is 21" wide vs 17" wide

    AHRI certified reference# 4702012

    As for Media filters I recommend and install the Airbear right angle media filter cabinet. It uses a 20"x25"x5" filter and it is also a metal cabinet


    Humidifier

    Aprilaire Model 600 bypass or 700 power and yes definitely use hot water

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    22
    Hawk 87 and Superfittertech, Thanks so much for your expert guidance. I have one more question in regard to the Carrier Greenspeed heat pump. I understand the exit air temperature that this heat pump puts out is slightly higher than other heat pumps. Is that true? Also, can you give me an idea of the outlet air temperature of a Carrier Greenspeed, a standard heat pump, and a Climatemaster Tranquility 27 geothermal heatpump? I just don't have any experience with heat pumps and am curious as to the exit air temperatures and differences.
    Thanks,

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    3,790
    i would ditch the furnace and go with a 2 stage variable speed.

    have the installers make it so only high fire works.

    any modulating furnace is a waist of energy. when they fire into low stage that actually waist more energy and take longer to heat your home. in low stage you might get 40% efficiency out of it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    22
    Wow, can you or someone educate me a bit more in regard to modulating furnaces being a waist of energy? Is this when they are operating at lower outputs or all outputs? I'm also confused by your suggestion to go with a two stage furnace and have it installed so only the high fire works. If that is more economical, why would I even purchase a two stage furnace? I'm totally confused by your comments, please clarify this for me.

    Thanks,

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,058
    Quote Originally Posted by vkr View Post
    Wow, can you or someone educate me a bit more in regard to modulating furnaces being a waist of energy? Is this when they are operating at lower outputs or all outputs? I'm also confused by your suggestion to go with a two stage furnace and have it installed so only the high fire works. If that is more economical, why would I even purchase a two stage furnace? I'm totally confused by your comments, please clarify this for me.

    Thanks,
    I think somebody got in the wrong coo laid last night. Modulating is fine and will give you better comfort control. slightly less efficient on the fuel burning but less cycling and a more constant steady state efficiency run time out ways the other.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    SE Washington
    Posts
    517
    looks like they have bid you the best your goiing to find, as far as humidifiers, check out the aprilaire 800 steam humidifier, with the high outlet temps of your gas furnace a steam humidfier is the way to go and the best way to introduce into your home
    Total Energy Management, inc

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    3,790
    i feel that variable speed blowers are very nice and efficient. you can only get a variable speed motor on a 2 stage furnace. if your house needs a 100,000btu furnace, why would you want a modulating furnace that is going to try and heat it with 40,000 btu?

    with a modulating furnace you supply temps are going to be lower as it modulates down lower.

    a single stage furnace or a 2stage wired up for single stage is going to have shorter run times and cost lest to operate.

    i've already had plenty of customers complain that their 2 stage furnace doesnt seem to heat enough and the costs of gas never went down. it may have gone up or stayed the same.

    customers with modulating furnaces say that the air comes out is not as hot and it seems to run long cycles.

    i dont know about you but when my heat comes on i dont want it blowing cold air for a long time. i want hot air and it to run the least amount of time.

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