Proving yourself.

[valdelocc]

I can tell you from having been on both sides of the fence that this statement is from nothing other than how you want to see things, and made as a general observation about any company - union or not - is nothing but a bald-faced lie. We do not work on commission at all because I feel that it fosters a culture of dishonesty for some folks, so I just won't do it, period. And whether we're union or non-union doesn't make a dimes worth of difference in that respect. Want to get fired in a hurry? Come to work for us and let me find out that you sold a customer something they didn't need simply for the sake of making money. There are companies out there that will do just that, but I resent the fact that you would roll everyone other than those really honest, never-do-anything-unethical union companies into the same group. The fact that you would do that shows the futility of a discussion of this sort.

maybe things are different down there, been on both sides too and my experience is exactly what I stated on previous post.
you dont know me, you have no idea where I work, you know nothing about me.
why dont you state your facts instead of attacking mine?

[neophytes serendipity]

You hear employers say, you must prove yourself. I agee with the statement on it's face.

However, HOW MUCH is required to satisfy you? Does a guy need to install 4, 10, or 1000 furnaces? Does a guy need to lay 100 miles of ductwork BEFORE you think he has proved himself?

I don't mean to sound of the jerk. I am just looking for some insight. Are your expectations decent, or are they pie in the sky?

I've noticed not too many owners providing useful feedback on this one...

[supertek65]

this used to be a pretty good site!

mostly techs!

now that the economy is bad we are out numbered by all the owners that dont have anything to do!

I've noticed not too many owners providing useful feedback on this one...

[neophytes serendipity]

this used to be a pretty good site!

mostly techs!

now that the economy is bad we are out numbered by all the owners that dont have anything to do!

I have a hard enough time running myself.

Based upon what I have seen as a union foreman, finding quality employees may be just about impossible.

"Proving yourself" can mean many things.

I have worked closely with some that will still try to skimp on something if given the opportunity. Don't know why or understand.

Others cannot follow instructions... or, do not listen. Or, just do it their way regardless of any reason why it should be done differently.

Then there really is a union entitlement mentality. Not all have it, but some certainly do.

I would value honesty and integrity over almost anything else. I think the rest of it comes with those two things.

My for what it is worth.

[freemind]

I've noticed not too many owners providing useful feedback on this one...

You're right. I didn't figure I would really get much useful feedback. Hoped I would, but that isn't what happened.

Don't the responses, really say something?

[neophytes serendipity]

You're right. I didn't figure I would really get much useful feedback. Hoped I would, but that isn't what happened.

Don't the responses, really say something?

Like here? http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=1026141



:crickets chirping:

[Dad]

You're right. I didn't figure I would really get much useful feedback. Hoped I would, but that isn't what happened.

Don't the responses, really say something?

You've gotten your responses. The issue is you refuse to listen and acknowledge them for yourself.

All I see is a few disgruntled techs not satisfied with their job and want to make everyone else miserable too.

If you don't like where you work, change.
If you don't like the answer given to you, ignore it.
If you ask it again and get the same answer, different version, then blaming others isn't the answer.
If you can't blame anyone else then start your own business.

This is still a great site. There are far more techs here than owners.

[freemind]

You've gotten your responses. The issue is you refuse to listen and acknowledge them for yourself.

All I see is a few disgruntled techs not satisfied with their job and want to make everyone else miserable too.

If you don't like where you work, change.
If you don't like the answer given to you, ignore it.
If you ask it again and get the same answer, different version, then blaming others isn't the answer.
If you can't blame anyone else then start your own business.

This is still a great site. There are far more techs here than owners.

WHEN did I complain about this site? Never once, Dad. I don't belive I have even hinted that this was NOT a good place.

I listen just fine. Have you thought that perhaps it isn't ME that has a problem with listening? I have acknowledged when I agree with business owners. I belive the problem IS, many of the owners don't like my responce.

Do you suppose that the main problem some people have with me is I ask questions and I respond with something other than just drool and a +1? In reality, bosses don't like guys that question or have an opposing opinion. They want a worker that does what they are told and nothing more. "Just shut up and DO it!". They want a worker that never seeks to draw any more wages than what the boss "feels" like paying. They want blind loyalty. Afterall, in the scheme of things, workers ARE a cash cow to a company. And they are quickly discarded when an employer CAN'T use them as a cash cow.

[Dad]

WHEN did I complain about this site? Never once, Dad. I don't belive I have even hinted that this was NOT a good place.

Was for Supertek, post 42

[Dad]

I listen just fine. Have you thought that perhaps it isn't ME that has a problem with listening? I have acknowledged when I agree with business owners. I belive the problem IS, many of the owners don't like my responce.

Do you suppose that the main problem some people have with me is I ask questions and I respond with something other than just drool and a +1? In reality, bosses don't like guys that question or have an opposing opinion. They want a worker that does what they are told and nothing more. "Just shut up and DO it!". They want a worker that never seeks to draw any more wages than what the boss "feels" like paying. They want blind loyalty. Afterall, in the scheme of things, workers ARE a cash cow to a company. And they are quickly discarded when an employer CAN'T use them as a cash cow.

What I see is 'some' techs have post here in the past that their Boss sucks. I also see very few Boss's that post here say their tech or tech suck.

What I also see is a Boss posting to what he feels is a deserving response and 'some' techs taking it like a slap in the face. Neither a Boss or a tech is a commodity to be crapped on (taken lightly), everyone has a job to do.

What I also see is a disconnect between what techs understand about a business and what a Boss knows about running a business.

Here is the bottom line as I see it, yes, I've owned my business for just over 25 years and was a ball busting tech for years before that...

A company is where you work and get paid. The company can only pay so much for the work as they can only charge so much for the work being done. The economy hits we owners hard. The money must come from somewhere so we cut our overhead to the bone so everyone gets paid and bills are paid.

A boss must make the above decisions and it's hard to cut back on essentials. Essentials are also raises and benefits. Others are new trucks, repair of others, vacations and holiday pay, the office light bill. Let's not forget about other utilities they use when you are in the field and the list goes on.

A tech is expected to do his job to the best of his abilities while employed. This goes for a service company or McDonalds. This is the way it is. Doesn't matter how much you get paid for it, it is a way of the working environment. Such as... I get a salary. When times are tight I don't' get paid and understand I must meet payroll. If I didn't get paid for last week does it mean that I don't show up next week?

If an employee gets paid a reasonable wage, not going to get into what the term reasonable is as we are all different, then he is expected to do his duties to the best of his abilities. Raises are hard to come by, yes? So, the tech must make due with what he is taking home just like we all do as there is no pot-o-gold at the end of any rainbow.

Now if you can agree the above is a set policy manner and all in their prespective fields of work are equal to everyone else in the same group then you set a base line of the majority of service companies around the globe.

The baseline is what one may say.. the "given" part of a working society.

So, let's say the Boss has a bad day or a bad year or heck, decade... OK, we understand it's not about yesterday it all about what you do for me now. Same goes for a tech. Do you jump ship? Only the tech or Boss in question can answer that.

When a new person is hired will the Boss be reasonable with his pocketbook? This wasn't just born out of the blue yesterday. This question is ages old. Can you get paid what you are worth? The answer is... it depends on the economy and how much the market will bear, how well the tech is adaptive to his new environment and is there enough money in the budget to hold that new tech's salary and overhead for 30 to 60 days until he starts paying for himself.

There's a ton more to being a Tech, a Boss and a Owner. But, if everyone is allowed to do his perspective part in the world I, for one, would think this field would be much easier to work in.

Am I focusing on your posting mentality, yes, maybe some. But seems there is separation that really shouldn't be there if you can communicate with the other groups that make the world go around if you get my drift.

[freemind]

Good post Dad. It is appreciated.

I don't find anything to disagree with.

[Dad]

But... all three categories have aholes in them too.

HA

[freemind]

But... all three categories have aholes in them too.

HA

I wouldn't argue that either.

I have seen my share of the workers that were lazy and useless as a pet coon. Difference is though, those knot heads don't affect my lifestyle like the boss or owner does.