Proving yourself.

[valdelocc]

There seems to be a misconception amongst employees, that employers are all some greedy bastards who have nothing better to do, than to connive ways to screw their employees.

"Prove Yourself".....day in and day out.....and you'll be secure in your job. If you're a worthy employee, your employer won't want to risk your leaving. Simple as that.

there is no "misconception". I have 20some years of experience, paid my dues and proved myself. before joint the union worked for some dirtbags and they all love the "prove yourself" catch phrase, soon I realized there was nothing I could do to "prove myself" cause it was all a rigged game to get me low and keep low, I reached the point were as soon as the "prove yourself" crap came out during an interview I said no thanks and walk.
The beauty about the union is that we get the money upfront per contract and if we dont prove ourselves later then we loose our jobs, there is no games or false promises.

[freemind]

Obviously, no amount of explanation is going to make you believe that no one is out to screw you, and that employers are human, too. Has your boss NEVER had to remind you to do something that you already knew that you should do? So let's end this argument right here. It's time to put your money where your mouth is or be quiet. Belly up, quit your sniveling and whining, and shell out your money to start your business so that you can do things correctly and change the perception of the entire working world that their boss wants nothing more than to bend them over a barrel. You should do really well since you seem to know all the answers.........

You are the typical guy I have worked for ALL my life. There is no discussion about anything. You are ALWAYS right, in your own mind. You are the type to quickly chew butt for someone else's mistakes. Yet come up with the excuses when YOU screw up.

Look, in today's modern world of electronic wonders, you have NO EXCUSE to "forget" raises and employee reviews. Hey, even a CALENDAR works still, right? It boils down to simply this: IF you are late with reviews and raises, you ARE screwing the employee.

As far as forgetting stuff myself, no, I don't. When the bass man tells me he wants this or that done, I write it down on a sticky note. That note hangs in the upper left corner of my truck window. The excuse "I forgot" is lame and bosses typically don't really accept it as an excuse. They want RESULTS, not excuses. I can live with that. Wish THEY too lived by those rules.

I don't know what your post's purpose serves, other than your weak attempt to belittle me. Do you have little man sydrome or something?

[maxster]

after 20 years its... give me my rate with a van i can be seen in and thats it.if they push that "prove yourself" crap its only one way to see if your a Fup like the exsisting % of the people they have working for them.experience scares people,with others are in wonder how much you know and how you handle cutomers and jobs.. it all a game...then you figure if you want to lower your standards to work for this bird.i have had jobs knowing at the sitdown these guys are A holes and their contracts reflected it..they might no tell you the personality of the company but the techs in the field will show you it tight and right or sloppy and knee jerking all and any repairs with babble of crap on invoices...and would bury their mother to keep an image up...

[John Markl]

.experience scares people,with others are in wonder how much you know and how you handle cutomers and jobs..

You mean, like 16-year guys, who sell the hell out of equipment, because they can't fix anything?

You mean, like 10-year guys, who can't be taught anything about proper use of tools or proper technical understanding, because they've "been doing it this way for years, and been getting by just fine" ??

You're right...some guys' "experience" scares me.

[maxster]

your is good as what you work on .what the biggest piece of tonnage you stand in front of to repair that's under contract ..can't wait on this answer?you comment on my post is totally my point the guy is assassinated right in the door as another parts changer.you want to test me with break down question on an interview...knock yourself out...as long as i can ask you question?what's the difference between a contactor and a starter ....for an example... you have 5 seconds to answer it........... get back on that single tonnage item if you can

[freemind]

You mean, like 16-year guys, who sell the hell out of equipment, because they can't fix anything?

You mean, like 10-year guys, who can't be taught anything about proper use of tools or proper technical understanding, because they've "been doing it this way for years, and been getting by just fine" ??

You're right...some guys' "experience" scares me.

John you are quick to point out techs that are screw ups. I am not gonna deny that alot of folks screw up and are hard headed.

Some employers are as bad or worse than your perception of some techs.


Can you see the IRONY in your train of thoughts with "malcontents" that jump jobs? Do you keep those bone headed techs on your payroll for YEARS before giving them the boot? Yet you call a good tech nasty names when they run into employment with crappy bosses?!?!

Yeah, they are 'trash' because they didn't work for bubba bob for 20 years.....

[John Markl]

your is good as what you work on .what the biggest piece of tonnage you stand in front of to repair that's under contract ..can't wait on this answer?you comment on my post is totally my point the guy is assassinated right in the door as another parts changer.you want to test me with break down question on an interview...knock yourself out...as long as i can ask you question?what's the difference between a contactor and a starter ....for an example... you have 5 seconds to answer it........... get back on that single tonnage item if you can

Dude, we stock motor starters.....what size would you like?

We also stock 600 amp fuses. Want some?

[John Markl]

John you are quick to point out techs that are screw ups. I am not gonna deny that alot of folks screw up and are hard headed.

Some employers are as bad or worse than your perception of some techs.


Can you see the IRONY in your train of thoughts with "malcontents" that jump jobs? Do you keep those bone headed techs on your payroll for YEARS before giving them the boot? Yet you call a good tech nasty names when they run into employment with crappy bosses?!?!

Yeah, they are 'trash' because they didn't work for bubba bob for 20 years.....

freemind, you have worked very little to speak of in this trade...by your own admission. Yet, you're already convinced that we're all pricks out to get the best of you.

My opinions are based on 3 decades' experience in the trade....as an employee, a partner, and a sole proprietor. I've had some good employees, some good partners, and some not so good employees.

I AM slow to fire. I don't fire anyone in a fit of anger/frustration. I try to correct/teach. When I finally get enough, I document carefully, then cut you loose. When I'm upset is not the time to worry about your job....it's when I get bewwy, bewwy kwiet......that something's about to happen.

There are plenty of job-hopping malcontents out there. There are guys in our area that have worked for multiple companies over and over again. Some of these guys have worked at the same place 3 times over.

When a guy changes jobs every 1.5 to 2 years, it can't be that every employer is a jerk.....because many of those same employers have guys who have been with them for going on 2 decades.....

[supertek65]

x2

there is no "misconception". I have 20some years of experience, paid my dues and proved myself. before joint the union worked for some dirtbags and they all love the "prove yourself" catch phrase, soon I realized there was nothing I could do to "prove myself" cause it was all a rigged game to get me low and keep low, I reached the point were as soon as the "prove yourself" crap came out during an interview I said no thanks and walk.
The beauty about the union is that we get the money upfront per contract and if we dont prove ourselves later then we loose our jobs, there is no games or false promises.

[valdelocc]

You mean, like 16-year guys, who sell the hell out of equipment, because they can't fix anything?
.

thats a highly desired skill for residential service, are your techs on commission?

[John Markl]

thats a highly desired skill for residential service, are your techs on commission?

We charge by flat rate.

Our techs are paid by the hour, and receive a 2% commission on any equipment sale. No commission on parts.

That may be a highly desired skill where YOU work....not at my place.

[valdelocc]

They are paid by the hour, and receive a 2% commission on any equipment sale. No commission on parts.

That may be a highly desired skill where YOU work....not at my place.

I dont do residential and with the union we dont get commission or are under management pressure to sell, union techs are honest dealing with the customer in the other hand non-union techs are push to sell sell and sell.

[John Markl]

I dont do residential and with the union we dont get commission or are under management pressure to sell, union techs are honest dealing with the customer in the other hand non-union techs are push to sell sell and sell.

Oh, you mean like doing after-hours residential side jobs, undercutting your union brothers ??

If you don't think that commercial companies have to "sell"...be it parts, labor, or equipment, then you're just plain delusional.

[freemind]

Hey, you are RIGHT John. I haven't worked in the HVAC trade. I have however, worked in agriculture AND the welding/fabrication trade. Bosses are bosses, and workers are workers. It doesn't MATTER the trade. People are just people, right?

I have two and a half decades of working for other people. I am not without some life experience myself.

While I AGREE there are job hopping undesireables out there, you can't seem to agree with ME. Agree that there are a plenty of employers that ARE out to screw over the very people that make them money. Wouldn't you agree that it is very difficult to come to some common ground when you only want to see things from one side? Instead of the WHOLE picture?

Look, you pinned me as some jerk who only thinks of myself. I don't. I think about the boss's need to make money too. Shouldn't the question of HOW the boss makes money come down to IF he has to screw someone to do it, or WHO he has to screw over to get it? Why does anyone need to be screwed over?

Over my life, I have been screwed by many employers. Not ALL of them, but MOST of them. Tell you one thing, and do another. I prefer HONESTY. I am sure an employer seeks the same.

[Peztoy]

Proving yourself. Isn't that what the apprenticeship is about. Little by little I learn more, I get paid more.
If later I change workplaces. I get paid the going rate. I get given small simple work, gradually moving up to more complex work. Proving myself. If I don't measure up, I'm gone.

[valdelocc]

Oh, you mean like doing after-hours residential side jobs, undercutting your union brothers ??

If you don't think that commercial companies have to "sell"...be it parts, labor, or equipment, then you're just plain delusional.

I dont do side jobs cause I like to spend time with my family and a few bucks here and there are no going to impact my fiances but under the union contract we are allowed to do side work using our own vehicles,tools and material.
Non-union commercial companies place a great deal of pressure on their employees to sell something or find something wrong in every PM even if the equipment was new, in a union shop we dont deal directly with management, we have a service manager or union steward and he is also a fellow union brother.

[klove]

Non-union commercial companies place a great deal of pressure on their employees to sell something or find something wrong in every PM even if the equipment was new,.

I can tell you from having been on both sides of the fence that this statement is from nothing other than how you want to see things, and made as a general observation about any company - union or not - is nothing but a bald-faced lie. We do not work on commission at all because I feel that it fosters a culture of dishonesty for some folks, so I just won't do it, period. And whether we're union or non-union doesn't make a dimes worth of difference in that respect. Want to get fired in a hurry? Come to work for us and let me find out that you sold a customer something they didn't need simply for the sake of making money. There are companies out there that will do just that, but I resent the fact that you would roll everyone other than those really honest, never-do-anything-unethical union companies into the same group. The fact that you would do that shows the futility of a discussion of this sort.

[klove]

You are the typical guy I have worked for ALL my life. There is no discussion about anything. You are ALWAYS right, in your own mind. You are the type to quickly chew butt for someone else's mistakes. Yet come up with the excuses when YOU screw up.

Look, in today's modern world of electronic wonders, you have NO EXCUSE to "forget" raises and employee reviews. Hey, even a CALENDAR works still, right? It boils down to simply this: IF you are late with reviews and raises, you ARE screwing the employee.

As far as forgetting stuff myself, no, I don't. When the bass man tells me he wants this or that done, I write it down on a sticky note. That note hangs in the upper left corner of my truck window. The excuse "I forgot" is lame and bosses typically don't really accept it as an excuse. They want RESULTS, not excuses. I can live with that. Wish THEY too lived by those rules.

I don't know what your post's purpose serves, other than your weak attempt to belittle me. Do you have little man sydrome or something?

Go back to the first part of this thread and read my first post in answer to your original question. That's discussion. Everything else that you've come up with in this thread, as in others, is nothing but belly-aching drivel, which is why you are so obviously unhappy and will always be the underdog in your own mind. As I said - go start your own and lets see how you do things since you apparently know all the answers. That's where the proof will be, and that goes for anyone else with the same attitude that you have.

As far as making a mistake and forgetting something - there's only two kinds of people in the world, those that make mistakes and liars. If you want to tell me that you never forget anything, then you're far to good a man to be talking to the lowly likes of me.

If I wanted to belittle you, I can assure you that it wouldn't be a weak attempt. You've handed out too much ammunition for that to happen. And no, the last thing I have is little mans syndrome (talk about a weak attempt to shift focus)......

[zw17]

Freemind: This is how not to approach the situation. Here's why: Let's say that you and I had the job interview(s) and we came to an agreement that you would go to work and I would pay you to do so. If things worked out to everyones satisfaction, I would increase your pay after one month from $3.00/hour to $3.10/hour and you agreed that the starting wage and increase was fair and good, but then you "made it clear" that you expected me to live up to what I said I would do. In other words, for no reason at all, you basically told me that you wouldn't tolerate it if I was a liar. At that point, the thing that would have been not only clear to this gentleman, but painfully obvious, was the location of the door.

This quote and it's content is the EXACT reason that John Markl started the thread that he started originally about "What do you bring to the table?". If one wants to be shown respect, then one has to have respect. This quote shows no respect at all towards the prospective employer. It does, however, convey the typical "It's all about me" attitude that many folks carry with them into job interviews. At least that's what they say on here and that's what they think, obviously. I've conducted lots of interviews and never had anyone say anything of that sort to my face, but it's gotten back through the grapevine that they told everyone else they said something of the sort, probably to try and make themselves look like they're in control. Someone that would actually say something like this in an interview isn't worthy to work for a company with my family's name on it. How should I think he'd treat my customers if he don't think any more than that of me? Remember, this is a two way street.

Typical boss talk.... I am screwing you blah blah balh.

If you cannot put on paper that I would receive the promised raise within one month and satisfactorily "proving" myself I would find my own way to the door. You wouldn't need to worry about hiring me, you competition would.

I have seen way too many employers promise that big raise after a "proving" period, problem is that the proving period often times turns into months where you end up busting your ass while the boss rakes in the profits of your hard work.

Everything gets put on paper when I get hired, if you don't, see ya later. Plenty of HVAC contractors out there.

[valdelocc]

I can tell you from having been on both sides of the fence that this statement is from nothing other than how you want to see things, and made as a general observation about any company - union or not - is nothing but a bald-faced lie. We do not work on commission at all because I feel that it fosters a culture of dishonesty for some folks, so I just won't do it, period. And whether we're union or non-union doesn't make a dimes worth of difference in that respect. Want to get fired in a hurry? Come to work for us and let me find out that you sold a customer something they didn't need simply for the sake of making money. There are companies out there that will do just that, but I resent the fact that you would roll everyone other than those really honest, never-do-anything-unethical union companies into the same group. The fact that you would do that shows the futility of a discussion of this sort.

maybe things are different down there, been on both sides too and my experience is exactly what I stated on previous post.
you dont know me, you have no idea where I work, you know nothing about me.
why dont you state your facts instead of attacking mine?