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  1. #27
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    I'd be just a bit worried about fracking. There have been some farmers water supplies that have been basically destroyed due to fracking in the area. Personally I can live without gas or oil a lot longer than without water.

  2. #28
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    Fracking is totally safe, at least thats what they say. Man causing earthquakes is right up there with man causing climate change, at least that's what they say.

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarMike View Post
    I'd be just a bit worried about fracking. There have been some farmers water supplies that have been basically destroyed due to fracking in the area. Personally I can live without gas or oil a lot longer than without water.
    How has the water supply been ruined? As the husband of a defense attorney, and according to a recent Texas Bar Assoc. trade magazine, plaintiff's attorneys are aggressively shopping for people who have allegedly had their water supply ruined by fracking. The magazine article states this is the next big lawyer payday...those evil energy companies have billions to lose in lawsuits.

    If we had as aggressive legal community back in the day as we have today, there would be no cars, no airplanes and nothing that involves any kind of risk for fear of a lawsuit.

    I'm certain nothing is 100% safe but would be interested in the facts concerning the water supply and the baseline before the claim that it has been ruined. Multiple WATER wells can deplete the groundwater and cause a well to be depleted.


    http://www.forbes.com/sites/christop...ater-unlikely/
    Avatar is a tribute to my Great Grandfather, Andrew Stewart. This pin was one of his advertisements for his heating and plumbing business. I never knew him but must of inherited his love of things mechanical since I am the only blue collar worker in the family

  4. #30
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    Cool

    Obama knows a lot about oil: his natural father was in oil as were his maternal grandparents when they weren't attending communist churches. This thing is rotten to the core. He will use oil both in the Gulf and on the continent to buy the election.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by texas cooler View Post
    How has the water supply been ruined? As the husband of a defense attorney, and according to a recent Texas Bar Assoc. trade magazine, plaintiff's attorneys are aggressively shopping for people who have allegedly had their water supply ruined by fracking. The magazine article states this is the next big lawyer payday...those evil energy companies have billions to lose in lawsuits.

    If we had as aggressive legal community back in the day as we have today, there would be no cars, no airplanes and nothing that involves any kind of risk for fear of a lawsuit.

    I'm certain nothing is 100% safe but would be interested in the facts concerning the water supply and the baseline before the claim that it has been ruined. Multiple WATER wells can deplete the groundwater and cause a well to be depleted.


    http://www.forbes.com/sites/christop...ater-unlikely/
    http://www.propublica.org/article/ep...yoming-aquifer

    http://www.propublica.org/article/sc...ear-gas-fields

    http://www.newsinferno.com/fracking/...enged-in-court

    Wish I was better at getting to the articles i want but this is what i found.
    We are not planners, we are crisis managers

  6. #32
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    Thanks for the links Mike. There seemed to be some anecdotal evidence to suggest that some frac'ing could possibly be causing problems. One theme that was evident in all the articles was "PLAINTIFF's attorneys". As soon as there is blood in the water they are going to go after the big payday and who has deeper pockets than big oil. Some of the people are “suffering” from conditions like nerve damage that one cannot disprove, similar to people complaining of whiplash during a rear end collision. No doubt people might be injured, but these types of conditions make it easy to collect the big payday and retire in style from a lawsuit.

    I am 100% on board for the cleanest energy available at the best possible cost. I’m doing my part and am a NABCEP-certified installer, have a solar PV system on my house, and have a geothermal HP in the shop as well as the house. That said, I don’t think that ANY energy production is 100% safe and clean. Somewhere along the line there will be dangerous processes and procedures. During a week-long solar class in the Bay Area (I was the only conservative in the class) the instructors spoke at length about even though solar power is clean to the end user, the production of the solar panels is extremely toxic and showed power point slides of several production facilities that made Love Canal look like a vacation spot. Solar panels also do not last forever and after their lifespan must be disposed of somehow. These are the images that are never shown to the end user.

    On a geothermal web-blog, one can read about improper drilling and installation that permits surface water to enter the water table and pollute it. E.coli in your well water will kill you just as much as benzene. These types of stories never make the news since there are no deep pockets to file suit against and green energy is the darling of the mainstream media.

    Ultimately, we are an energy intensive driven society. Green technologies can only supply a small percentage of our needs. Our leftist leaders don’t give a rat’s azz how much we pay for energy and consume a huge amount of energy on themselves, ie. Obama’s many vacation trips with Moochelle arriving early at our expense, Pelosi’s use of a 757 to ferry her and her family coast to coast every week and John Kerry’s private jets and yachts using 1000’s of gallons of jet and diesel fuel yet he is opposed to windmills near his home.
    Avatar is a tribute to my Great Grandfather, Andrew Stewart. This pin was one of his advertisements for his heating and plumbing business. I never knew him but must of inherited his love of things mechanical since I am the only blue collar worker in the family

  7. #33
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    One more thought here just for fun:

    When the lawyers (sharks) sue big oil for tens of $millions... where does that money come from? Yeah, you guessed it... the price of gasoline goes UP.

    I guarantee you nobody gets hurt except the consumer... as govt is not going to risk loosing the tens of $millions of tax revenue by bankrupting big oil.

    As Texas Cooler said: Our society is energy intensive... just the way it is. Better IMO to learn to live with it than try to destroy it... The results of the latter might not be much of a life.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    One more thought here just for fun:

    When the lawyers (sharks) sue big oil for tens of $millions... where does that money come from? Yeah, you guessed it... the price of gasoline goes UP.

    I guarantee you nobody gets hurt except the consumer... as govt is not going to risk loosing the tens of $millions of tax revenue by bankrupting big oil.

    As Texas Cooler said: Our society is energy intensive... just the way it is. Better IMO to learn to live with it than try to destroy it... The results of the latter might not be much of a life.
    you should apply that advice to taxes

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    you should apply that advice to taxes
    Please explain Ace.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Please explain Ace.
    well, just take the word energy and replace it with the word tax, like this

    Our society is tax intensive.....just the way it is. Better IMO to learn to live with it than try to destroy it.

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    well, just take the word energy and replace it with the word tax, like this

    Our society is tax intensive.....just the way it is. Better IMO to learn to live with it than try to destroy it.
    Kinda like:

    My co is not making a profit... I am going deeper and deeper into debt... But I should learn to live with it (KNOWING there will be a really messy D-day sometime in the future)... because fixing it is too hard? Is that what you are saying?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by texas cooler View Post
    Thanks for the links Mike. There seemed to be some anecdotal evidence to suggest that some frac'ing could possibly be causing problems. One theme that was evident in all the articles was "PLAINTIFF's attorneys". As soon as there is blood in the water they are going to go after the big payday and who has deeper pockets than big oil. Some of the people are “suffering” from conditions like nerve damage that one cannot disprove, similar to people complaining of whiplash during a rear end collision. No doubt people might be injured, but these types of conditions make it easy to collect the big payday and retire in style from a lawsuit.

    I am 100% on board for the cleanest energy available at the best possible cost. I’m doing my part and am a NABCEP-certified installer, have a solar PV system on my house, and have a geothermal HP in the shop as well as the house. That said, I don’t think that ANY energy production is 100% safe and clean. Somewhere along the line there will be dangerous processes and procedures. During a week-long solar class in the Bay Area (I was the only conservative in the class) the instructors spoke at length about even though solar power is clean to the end user, the production of the solar panels is extremely toxic and showed power point slides of several production facilities that made Love Canal look like a vacation spot. Solar panels also do not last forever and after their lifespan must be disposed of somehow. These are the images that are never shown to the end user.

    On a geothermal web-blog, one can read about improper drilling and installation that permits surface water to enter the water table and pollute it. E.coli in your well water will kill you just as much as benzene. These types of stories never make the news since there are no deep pockets to file suit against and green energy is the darling of the mainstream media.

    Ultimately, we are an energy intensive driven society. Green technologies can only supply a small percentage of our needs. Our leftist leaders don’t give a rat’s azz how much we pay for energy and consume a huge amount of energy on themselves, ie. Obama’s many vacation trips with Moochelle arriving early at our expense, Pelosi’s use of a 757 to ferry her and her family coast to coast every week and John Kerry’s private jets and yachts using 1000’s of gallons of jet and diesel fuel yet he is opposed to windmills near his home.
    I'm going to let those two kids fight in the sandbox and address your thoughts. TRUE......

    More power to you to be NABCEP certified. It is another feather in the cap. Yes, we are energy intensive but we do have choices we can make, heat pump being a good one and in my opinion so is PV, wind and especially solar thermal. In Germany, to get a coveted "Blue Angel" designation a solar thermal panel must produce, in one year, as much energy as it took to make it. There is no other technology that does that (mind you it is only the panel that is rated that way) so it should be on every house.

    Some PV panels do have some nasty processes involved in making them but not all of them AND these processes are getting better all the time. To me it is a matter of degree and if you compare the worst energy producers (coal- for emissions and NUC for waste) I think PV and wind wins hands down.

    I don't want to get political on this thread but I doubt this prez travels any more than the previous ones. I think if you want to lambast anyone, try the Koch Bros or pretty well any super rich guy.

    The links are what i found in a few minutes but I heard an interview with a farmer who won a fight which had the gas company forced to deliver bottled water to the farm until the wells cleared up. The company just stopped delivering it and gave the guy a raspberry. The water is still unfit to drink.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Kinda like:

    My co is not making a profit... I am going deeper and deeper into debt... But I should learn to live with it (KNOWING there will be a really messy D-day sometime in the future)... because fixing it is too hard? Is that what you are saying?
    Nope, not at . I never mentioned a company, you spun that into it

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