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  1. #27
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Chas.,WV
    Posts
    30
    Guys , I think you are reading too much into my question. I know temperature differential demand has been around for a long time. I seem to remember one in photo fashion that "could see" the frost accumulation. However, am I the only one that has seen the oil level rise in a compressor after a defrost. In other words, would you recommend the product for all situations?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,647
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Wulkin View Post
    ....In other words, would you recommend the product for all situations?
    The system I used it in was a Single System Walk-In Freezer with Electric Defrost, Paragon Timer set for 4x30 (every 6 hours for 30 minutes).

    I have gone from 20 defrosts in 5 days to 7-8 defrosts in 5 days, evap coils are perfectly clear, and the compressor actually cycles off from time to time where it used to just run until the next defrost.

    To answer your question, I would recommend the KE2Therm controller for any Conventional Walk-In Box, Low or Medium Temp.

    Now about those glass door freezers....
    The views and opinions posted here are my own. They do not reflect the corporate policies of my employer and will most likely get me fired at some point.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    5,514

    Hmm

    Quote Originally Posted by engineerdave View Post
    The system I used it in was a Single System Walk-In Freezer with Electric Defrost, Paragon Timer set for 4x30 (every 6 hours for 30 minutes).

    I have gone from 20 defrosts in 5 days to 7-8 defrosts in 5 days, evap coils are perfectly clear, and the compressor actually cycles off from time to time where it used to just run until the next defrost.

    To answer your question, I would recommend the KE2Therm controller for any Conventional Walk-In Box, Low or Medium Temp.

    Now about those glass door freezers....
    Wow.
    I love the smell of phosgene first thing in the morning:

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  4. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,647
    Okay, I have a math question.

    I'm eye-balling a potential customer who says he has no use for yet another taste of snake-oil. He's not even a little bit interested in graphs or ROI spreadsheets or photographs of other installations. He wants absolute PROOf this technology will work at his site, on his equipment.

    It was recommended to me to install Hour Meters on his Condensing Unit, Defrost Circuit, and Evap Fans, run that for a week, then give the KE2Therm control and run that for a week, compare the difference. Seems like a good strategy.

    My question is this: Is there a formula I can use to convert those runtime hours into dollars?

    Thanks fellas.
    The views and opinions posted here are my own. They do not reflect the corporate policies of my employer and will most likely get me fired at some point.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,071
    Find out how much he pays for kWh

    Then record there kW use with their existing equipment.

    Then record there kW use with the KE2.

    wattage x hours used 1000 x price per kWh = cost of electricity

    Lets say his condensing unit runs 2000 watts or 2 kWh and it ran for 150 hours and he pays 15 per kWh.

    2000 x 150 1000 x 15 = $45.00

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,647
    Quote Originally Posted by Phase Loss View Post
    Find out how much he pays for kWh

    Then record there kW use with their existing equipment.

    Then record there kW use with the KE2.

    wattage x hours used 1000 x price per kWh = cost of electricity

    Lets say his condensing unit runs 2000 watts or 2 kWh and it ran for 150 hours and he pays 15 per kWh.

    2000 x 150 1000 x 15 = $45.00
    I need to get closer to the equipment, the site is HUGE and reading his meter won't really be an option for me. I need to somehow figure out the kWh for each individual component. I was hoping I could crunch voltage x amps x hours to come up with a Kwh number?
    The views and opinions posted here are my own. They do not reflect the corporate policies of my employer and will most likely get me fired at some point.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,071
    Amps X Volts = Watts

    But you will need to record run times.

    Yeah, don't hook up to his main meter, only hook up to your equipment. If the unit is powered by different power sources, you will need more then 1 set of monitoring equipment.

    without recording actual run times, you can only guess at best.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,071
    Quote Originally Posted by engineerdave View Post
    It was recommended to me to install Hour Meters on his Condensing Unit, Defrost Circuit, and Evap Fans, run that for a week, then give the KE2Therm control and run that for a week, compare the difference. Seems like a good strategy.
    yeah do that

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    123
    Measuring watts is a little tough with the equipment we normally have available.
    There are some pretty expensive "data buckets" that can do it but with just an amprobe it requires more math.
    Watts=volts x amps for resistance (heaters or lights) but for motors, especially 3 phase motors, it gets more complex.

    (runtime hours *amps*volts * power factor*1.732)/1000 = kwhrs
    power factor is motor specific* but use .85
    1.732 is the square root of 3 to correct for 3 phase power
    divide* by 1000 to get to kilowatts instead of watts
    Using horsepower or tons refers to output and not necessarily a measure of input.

    The KE2 controller graphs 5 days of temperature and defrost data and can be set to act like a timeclock to get baseline info, and then returned to demand to show the savings.

    Just using time meters will work if you put separate meters on the motors and heaters, then use the formula above for the motors and straight amps x volts to get watts for resistive loads.

    We have used units from EKM Metering url]www.ekmmetering.com[/url], they are totalizing watt meters and you can put it on the input power to the entire machine and note the readings before and after. They are relatively inexpensive.

    I can let you borrow one of mine if you need one.
    In an infinite universe, not only are all things possible, all things are necessary

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,647
    Quote Originally Posted by BDOLIN View Post
    Measuring watts is a little tough with the equipment we normally have available.
    There are some pretty expensive "data buckets" that can do it but with just an amprobe it requires more math.
    Watts=volts x amps for resistance (heaters or lights) but for motors, especially 3 phase motors, it gets more complex.

    (runtime hours *amps*volts * power factor*1.732)/1000 = kwhrs
    power factor is motor specific* but use .85
    1.732 is the square root of 3 to correct for 3 phase power
    divide* by 1000 to get to kilowatts instead of watts
    Using horsepower or tons refers to output and not necessarily a measure of input.

    The KE2 controller graphs 5 days of temperature and defrost data and can be set to act like a timeclock to get baseline info, and then returned to demand to show the savings.

    Just using time meters will work if you put separate meters on the motors and heaters, then use the formula above for the motors and straight amps x volts to get watts for resistive loads.

    We have used units from EKM Metering url]www.ekmmetering.com[/url], they are totalizing watt meters and you can put it on the input power to the entire machine and note the readings before and after. They are relatively inexpensive.

    I can let you borrow one of mine if you need one.
    Got a cold one waiting for you here in Vegas bud! Thank you!

    uhhh.... is there an App for that...?
    The views and opinions posted here are my own. They do not reflect the corporate policies of my employer and will most likely get me fired at some point.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    123
    You may have been kidding about the app but I found one that seems to do it all.

    Electrical Calculator by Pugazh @$3.99

    I am too cheap to buy it but have made up some excel sheets with some of the formulas.
    In an infinite universe, not only are all things possible, all things are necessary

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    123
    How did these installations work out?
    In an infinite universe, not only are all things possible, all things are necessary

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,647

    Wet Days

    So it's been extremely hot and humid here in Vegas the past couple weeks. I'veName:  Wet Days Graph.jpg
Views: 188
Size:  55.5 KB spent a good portion of my time de-icing cases, clearing drainlines, thawing out AC coils, like that. Then I went to see how my Sandwich Franchise KE2Therm was holding up in their W/I Freezer.

    What I found blew me away. Not a spec of frost on the coils, box down to temp, and still only used 11 defrosts in the span of time that used to use 20.

    www.ke2therm.com your technology ROCKS!
    The views and opinions posted here are my own. They do not reflect the corporate policies of my employer and will most likely get me fired at some point.

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