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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    5
    I have read many of the posts on this board and I have found them very interesting. I live in State College, PA and purchased a renovated 1950 home in the historic district. The previous owner did many great modifications but AC/Heat was not included. The AC/Heat is too small for the current size of the house. In the fall, I replaced the old Kenmore gas hydronics system with a 200,000 BTU Buderus Logamax wall mounted unit and the continuous hot water. I also installed new baseboards and zoned the house (three zones). I am now looking at replacing the new AC and solid HVAC firms in the area are limited. I had three contractors come in and give me quotes. Two did load calculations and one did not so I am now down to two. The two solutions presented include the addition of returns in the three bedrooms since only one return in the house was installed. This will bring the total returns up to four. Below are the details of the two solutions:

    1) A Carrier 13 SEER (3.5 Ton Puron 24APA342A003) condenser and a Carrier variable speed Puron air handler (FV4BNF005)

    2) A TRANE 14 SEER (3.5 Ton R410A XL14i) condenser with a TRANE variable speed R410A air handler (I have not received the written proposal but it is either the compact version (4TFE) or the full (TWE)).

    Here are my questions:

    1) It seems that the quality between the two is about the same from the comments on the board and that the skills of the HVAC contractor are the most important. Is this correct?

    2) The warranty on the TRANE is better than the Carrier (10/10 vs. 10/5) so how much should this shape the decision?

    3) Does anyone have any comments on the sound insulation between the two condenser units?

    4) Any other comments or concerns are welcome!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    115
    Both are good systems. Yes, the install is just as important as the equipment.

    The warranty should be a factor. The Trane 10/10 and Carrier 10/5 you get with the equipment is parts only, not labor. I know you can buy a 10/10 parts and labor warranty on Carrier for additional money. Can you with Trane? With the cost of labor and parts in todays market, one warranty call could more than pay for the amount of buying extra warranty. It might be worth looking into.

    One seer over a period of time can make quite a difference in savings. You should look at that.

    Don't forget the eye candy, you have to look at your choice everyday. Carrier has a patent on thier paint and finish. They are going to stay looking new longer than the Trane will. That's important to some people. I have customers that actually wax thier condensing units, LOL.

    Put all your eggs in the basket befor you decide. IMHO, you'll be ok with either system.
    "Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity."
    Frank Leahy

  3. #3
    buy carrier never buy trane

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Originally posted by xvoltn
    (I have not received the written proposal but it is either the compact version (4TFE) or the full (TWE)).
    It would have to be a TWE--E air handler, 4TFE air handler is only up to 2.5 tons.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    DC Metro
    Posts
    89
    Carrier brands have a scroll compressor which is very quite. Trane has the reciprocating compressor(Climatuff)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,302
    The 14 SEER 3.5 ton is a Trane scroll under a cover and the fan blade is the new swept wing design. It will be quiet too though not as quiet as some of the high end Carriers.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Originally posted by flick
    I know you can buy a 10/10 parts and labor warranty on Carrier for additional money. Can you with Trane?
    Trane has had 10 year parts and labor warranties available for many years.

    Carrier has a patent on thier paint and finish. They are going to stay looking new longer than the Trane will.
    Trane powder coats all the sheet metal, and has a composite base pan. I seriously doubt the finish on the Carrier would stay fresh looking for any longer than the finish on a Trane outdoor unit...

    Originally posted by city
    Carrier brands have a scroll compressor which is very quite. Trane has the reciprocating compressor(Climatuff)
    The Trane outdoor unit he is looking at has a scroll compressor in it.

    Climatuff is just Trane's brand name for thier compressors. Both the scroll and recip compressors are "Climatuff" compressors.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    66
    Also the ahu should be a 4TEE3F37 or 40. The TWE-E ahu is for R22 systems, not R410a.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    Posts
    355
    that model condenser is infinity compatible have the contractor upgrade you to the infinity airhandler for better humidity controll all performance out door units are now infinity compatible and all performance heaters are infinity compatible and that unit your carrier dealer quoted you actually get 14.7 seer with with 11.7 eer. i dont know what the trane unit actually is but by adding the infinity air handler to that unit you would get better dehumidification and if you upgraded to the next model for would be the fv4anf6000 or (infinity fe4anb0060000) with the 24apa342003 you would get 15 seer 12.5 eer and you would qualify for the energy tax credit but then it sounds like your carrier guy doesnt know what he is selling you if he is only telling you 13seer when the unit is better than that so find out who is actually right if they tranes seer rating is actually 14 then seems like the trane guy knows a little more about his equiptment

    [Edited by dynalowrider79 on 04-13-2006 at 10:14 AM]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    5

    Update on Information

    Thank you for all of the great feedback. I received the quote from the TRANE contractor in the mail today and here are the details:

    1) He calculated my heat gain at 38,651 BTUs

    2) He presented two options:

    a) A TRANE 16 SEER two stage 4TTX6048 4 Ton, R410A two speed compressor and a TRANE 4TEE3F49 variable speed air handler. The warranty is 10 yrs parts and labor

    b) A TRANE 14 SEER single stage 3.5 ton, R410A, two speed compressor with the same air handler as above (and the same warranty)

    My load calls for a 3 1/2 ton (as a 3 ton produces 36,000 BTUs). The two speed does not come in a 1/2 ton and he told me that due to the way that the two stages operates that a 4 ton would be fine.

    3) Questions:

    a) TRANE guys seems to present a better knowledge base than Carrier guy but I intend to ask the Carrier guy questions about the higher products. Should I give him the chance?

    b) Is it OK to install a 4 ton two stage unit for a house sized at 3.5.

    c) By using the 4 ton unit (if it is OK) will this allow not to buy another unit should I decide to add another room to my house (just a theoretical yes or no as I know you don't have the benefit of my calculations). It would be nice to make one investment rather than two.

    d) In central PA we can have very humid months but is a two stage correct for this area? I understand that the benefits are reduced humidity in the house but the down side is longer run times. Is this correct?

    As always, thank you for your insight!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    Posts
    355
    im from delaware so we kinda have the same weather the 4 ton should be fine my load calc shows 2 1/2 tons and i have a 3 ton 2 stage system and works fine, im a carrier guy and im all for carrier but to be honest it doesnt sound like your carrier guy knows as much as he should about his line if your interested in carrier get another estimate from a different carrier dealer when it comes to trane vs carrier on 2 speed carriers infinity 18 38tdb or the new model 24ana(which wont be out to about late may) will have better humidity controll. reason for that is that the trane has the scroll compressor which is a nice compressor but only derates to 67% where the infinity 17 38tdb derates to 50% this allows for better humidity controll with out over cooling the new infinty 21 has the scroll but will not be out untill late may but when it comes to comfort during cooling i have to say infinity over trane but both would work great as along as they are installed correctly but the controll you get with the infinity is far more advanced that what trane has to offer right now, go with who you feel the most comfortable and would be able to give you the best possible install

    [Edited by dynalowrider79 on 04-14-2006 at 07:52 AM]

  12. #12
    Central PA ???

    The only question I have is who is bidding it

    Equipment doesnt matter on the resi side it really matters who installes it especially in Central PA there are some big companys who are some real hacks to say the least






  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    5

    Firms

    I received quotes from the following:

    1) Norris Heating and Plumbing
    2) Berrena's
    3) PBCI-Allen

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