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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclrchiller View Post
    "Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow" - The evaporator water flow rate, as measured by the optional entering and leaving water pressure transducers (plus some calculating by the control panel using those values and settings programmed into the panel by the installer), is below the setpoint as entered (adjustable). For what it's worth -
    .

    Nuclrchiller, can you elaborate on the set point for water flow. I'm getting a feeling, everything you guys are saying is pointing to this new panel...

  2. #15
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    Dec 2008
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    Dixiana, AL
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlove View Post
    Nuclrchiller and jayguy you are correct no pump. Not sure about the atmospheric pressure set, but i will add it to my list of questions. what should it be?
    Please believe me when I say there's no offense intended, but if one has to ask what atmosperic pressure should be set at, don't y'all think this may be getting a little deep? This is an open forum for all the world to see, and my opinion is that it's time for our guest to call the cavalry.

  3. #16
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlove View Post
    Nuclrchiller and jayguy you are correct no pump. Not sure about the atmospheric pressure set, but i will add it to my list of questions. what should it be?
    WTF?
    UA LU189

    10mm, because it's better than .45acp

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    Please believe me when I say there's no offense intended, but if one has to ask what atmosperic pressure should be set at, don't y'all think this may be getting a little deep? This is an open forum for all the world to see, and my opinion is that it's time for our guest to call the cavalry.
    no offence taken, klove. Some old timers told me there are no stupid questions just stupid answers. I never claimed to be an expert. just living and learning

    I appreciate everyone's candid and honest postings. excuse my ignorance on Chillers, but i make great coffee.

  5. #18
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlove View Post
    no offence taken, klove. Some old timers told me there are no stupid questions just stupid answers. I never claimed to be an expert. just living and learning

    I appreciate everyone's candid and honest postings. excuse my ignorance on Chillers, but i make great coffee.
    It's not about chillers, d. I read your profile and understand that you're probably a jam-up facility manager, but atmospheric pressure has been what it is since the dawn of time, and it won't change until the Creator Himself decides that He wants it to be different. It's not a stupid question, but when asked in the context of troubleshooting and testing as you're doing, it's a dead give-away that someone is wading in water that's too deep for their experience level.

    I obviously don't know the situation at your site so there may be some extenuating circumstances that have thrown you into doing what you're doing, but it would be my advice based on what's been said here that you would better serve yourself and your facility by employing the services of someone familiar with your equipment.

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    It's not about chillers, d. I read your profile and understand that you're probably a jam-up facility manager, but atmospheric pressure has been what it is since the dawn of time, and it won't change until the Creator Himself decides that He wants it to be different. It's not a stupid question, but when asked in the context of troubleshooting and testing as you're doing, it's a dead give-away that someone is wading in water that's too deep for their experience level.

    I obviously don't know the situation at your site so there may be some extenuating circumstances that have thrown you into doing what you're doing, but it would be my advice based on what's been said here that you would better serve yourself and your facility by employing the services of someone familiar with your equipment.
    thanks for you advice and observaions, and yes i have many people looking into this. The "experts". but I'm asking the questions more for my own benefit and to get input from people like you. I know what PSIA means.

    Jayguy said, why is the atmospheric pressure set to 12.8 psia? i said, i dont know. what should it be?. simple question. do you have an answer???

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    45th Parallel
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    954
    “If your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.” ~Henry J. Kaiser

  8. #21
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    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
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    4,267
    the 'Atmospheric Pressure' issue is one that sticks in my craw. if 'Atmospheric Pressure' never changes, then why did Trane put in an adjustable value?

    i will tell you why...by the way, it should ALWAYS be set for 14.7 psia or 14.696 psia for us anal-retentive nerds.

    here is the deal, the 'Atmospheric Pressure' (AP) changes based on your altitude above or below sea level. the higher the altitude, the lower your atmospheric air pressure.

    the way that Trane uses this value is to change the pressure displayed on the screen. Trane takes the saturated refrigerant temperature, converts it to pressure (just like on your PT chart) and then 'corrects' it to your AP. so it seems to make sense that you would adjust your chillers AP setting to your particular AP.

    however, if you take a tank of refrigerant (that has liquid and vapor in it) to the top of a mountain or to the bottom of the sea, the saturated refrigerant temperature and saturated refrigerant pressure ALWAYS remains the same. if the refrigerant temperature (inside the can) is 40F, then the pressure for R11 is 7.0 psia no matter where on Earth or the Moon you are because it is a sealed system.

    your chiller is also a sealed system, so the pressure and temperature relationship is still the same no matter what your AP is. if you want your displayed pressures to match the refrigerant that you have, you need to set the AP setting to 14.7 psia.

    as for whether this is a stupid question/answer or not, i do not believe that it is a stupid question because Trane attempted to confuse the planet with this setting (smells like some national salesman had something to do with it). the only thing that this setting will do is give you wrong info if it is set incorrectly, however, the info can be made to match your $12.35 manifold gage set from Menards, because we all know how accurate THOSE things are!
    my 1st time jumping out of a plane...http://youtu.be/Kv38G0MHsGo

  9. #22
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    Please dont post another link to what PSIA means.

    Jayguy, thanks. great responce. very professional. enough said.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    362
    What do you mean by panels fried?

    It seems a bit odd that all these electrical devices are burning up.

  11. #24
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    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlove View Post
    Nuclrchiller, can you elaborate on the set point for water flow. I'm getting a feeling, everything you guys are saying is pointing to this new panel...
    I don't think this is your problem. This is an informational warning and has no effect on the operation or protection of the chiller (that is what "loss of flow" or "flow overdue" is for), unless there is an actual low flow condition. To disable this diagnostic function requires a laptop with Trane proprietary software. In other words, a Trane tech. I'm curious, when you say "experts" have looked at it, do you mean Trane techs? They must be involved to properly commission/startup this panel. There is much information and settings that are unique to each chiller that are required to be input, and that laptop with Trane's software is absolutely needed.

  12. #25
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    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
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    Quote Originally Posted by triggerhappy View Post
    What do you mean by panels fried?

    It seems a bit odd that all these electrical devices are burning up.
    Agreed. Where is panel powered from? I would expect control power transformer in the starter, but have seen otherwise.

  13. #26
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    Jul 2011
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    East coast USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclrchiller View Post
    Agreed. Where is panel powered from? I would expect control power transformer in the starter, but have seen otherwise.
    That's the million dollar question, why did these burn up? not sure, trying to gather up what information i can.
    But you would think after the original one went, and the second one went there would have been more trouble shooting done. I hope to have answer soon

    I believe the original panel was a UCP1 CenTraVac Panel
    trying to get more info on old panel.

    When i say i think everything points to the new panel, what I'm saying is, if the new panel wasn't set up property this could be a contributing factor.

    As for flows, I understand what you saying. But from the alarm history and what I know about the loss of freon, water flow, and surging ect...and not having proper settings, all these combined, made for failure. Prior to the new panel being installed the unit sat for several weeks, my assumption is it got air bound. Some questions I have are, was the purge running correctly, should the service techs pulled a vacuum prior to start up? Not sure of the steps they took prior to start up. Working on getting those answers

    That's why I asked about the motor cooling. It would appear the chiller ran for a short time after reset. Depending on pressures, water temps and flows what would prevent the motor to get proper cooling for it to overheat? Way at the bottom it does show a motor temp alarm early on, then it doesn't appear again until the failure?
    I know there are many factors; I’m not looking for concrete answers. Just thoughts, and a few hypotheses. everyone is doing great!

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