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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    Here is a study by some two bit psychologist that is just absolutely the dumbest thing I have heard so called "scientific" minds come up with.
    By Michael Conlon
    Fri Mar 31, 9:49 AM ET

    CHICAGO (Reuters) - A study of more than 1,800 patients who underwent heart bypass surgery has failed to show that prayers specially organized for their recovery had any impact, researchers said Thursday.

    In fact, the study found some of the patients who knew they were being prayed for did worse than others who were only told they might be prayed for -- though those who did the study said they could not explain why.

    The patients in the study at six U.S. hospitals included 604 who were actually prayed for after being told they might or might not be; another 597 patients who were not prayed for after being told they might or might not be; and a group of 601 who were prayed for and told they would be the subject of such prayer.

    The praying was done by members of three Christian groups in monasteries and elsewhere -- two Catholic and one Protestant -- who were given written prayers and the first name and initial of the last name of the prayer subjects. The prayers started on the eve of or day of surgery and lasted for two weeks.

    Among the first group -- who were prayed for but only told they might be -- 52 percent had post-surgical complications compared to 51 percent in the second group, the ones who were not prayed for though told they might be. In the third group, who knew they were being prayed for, 59 percent had complications.

    After 30 days, however, the death rates and incidence of major complications was about the same across all three groups, said the study published in the American Heart Journal.

    COMPLICATIONS AFTER SURGERY

    "Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on whether complications occurred (and) patients who were certain that intercessors would pray for them had a higher rate of complications than patients who were uncertain but did receive intercessory prayer," the study said.

    There is "no clear explanation" for the latter finding, it added.

    The study -- called the largest of its kind -- was designed only to try to measure the impact of intercessory prayer on heart surgery patients, an intervention that some earlier reports had showed seemed to be beneficial.

    "Our study was never intended to address the existence of God or the presence or absence of intelligent design in the universe" or to compare the efficacy of one prayer form over another, said the Rev. Dean Marek, director of chaplain services at the Mayo Clinic, one of the authors.

    The patients in the study had similar religious profiles with most believing in spiritual healing and almost all also thinking that friends or relatives would be praying for them as well, he said.

    "One caveat is that with so many individuals receiving prayer from friends and family, as well as personal prayer, it may be impossible to disentangle the effects of study prayer from background prayer," Manoj Jain of Baptist Memorial Hospital, Memphis, Tennessee, another author of the report.

    The authors said one possible limitation to their study was that those doing the special praying had no connection or acquaintance with the subjects of their prayer, which would not usually be the norm.

    "Private or family prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, and the results of this study do not challenge this belief," the report concluded.
    Don't these jerks get it? They still want to be able to understand God, and actually think they can achieve this with science.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Urbandale IA. USA
    Posts
    4,962

    They did NOT consider

    They did NOT consider the FAITH of the individual.
    If the person does not believe that prayer will help, then nothing will help.

    AS CHRIST said, "according to your faith"
    I can cut my finger off and the best surgeons in the world can sew it back on, but IF I do NOT believe it will be healed, it will not be so.....

    Those who dance, appear insane to those who do not hear the music.
    Those who believe, appear ignorant to those who do not know God.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    34.8n 102.4w
    Posts
    3,244

    Do your 1 bit study

    And prove them wrong...... If you can.




    Nevermind, you can't.









    Robin, and any others, there is no "savior" .

    Live life how you want, but after death...... nada.





    What do you expect to happen when you die..... That trial thing that screwy posted ?? Get your wings and fly around and guide mortals ?




    NEWS FLASH..... YOU DIE.
    Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    9,871

    But sline

    There is always HELL!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    34.8n 102.4w
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    Yeah Rob

    I know, living that now.



    Not really, but I doubt it gets any better.

    What do you think bud ?
    Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    9,871

    I believe

    There is a heaven
    And I also believe that more people will be there than we think.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    34.8n 102.4w
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    Yeah bro

    But you also think Hillary is hot.....




    I truely hope you are correct ........ about heaven.


    Allthough , there are a few people I hope to not meet again.
    Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    9,871

    Those people

    Will probably have a change of attitude once they get their!!

  9. #9
    Senior Tech Guest

    Re: Yeah bro

    Originally posted by sline-dawg
    But you also think Hillary is hot.....




    I truely hope you are correct ........ about heaven.


    Allthough , there are a few people I hope to not meet again.
    Given your current belief system I think you need not be concerned about meeting anyone in heaven...it would appear that unless you have a change of heart you won't be traveling there.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981

    Re: Do your 1 bit study

    Originally posted by sline-dawg
    Robin, and any others, there is no "savior" .

    Live life how you want, but after death...... nada.

    What do you expect to happen when you die..... That trial thing that screwy posted ?? Get your wings and fly around and guide mortals ?

    NEWS FLASH..... YOU DIE.
    This is quite an interesting coincidence.

    You see sline, what you are professing is the old "eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you shall die" scenario.

    What is interesting is where this concept came from. Let's look at what Jesus stated about a rich man concerned only with his physical existance. The rich man in question is concerned as to what to do with an abundant crop he currently has.

    Luke 12:18-21 Then he said, "This is what I'll do . I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I'll say to myself; "You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry."

    But God said to him, "You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?

    This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God."

    I tell the Good News to people. I will elaborate on what I believe the Good News entails for anyone who wishes to feed that part of themselves further. In the long run, we have all been given the right to choose for ourselves to have faith in God or not.

    Do not mourn for me if you think I have not sewn wild oats; I have experienced this physical existance in ways that most humans have not or will not. All of my physical worldly ventures and experiences have proven to be in vain if when I physically die, I also die spiritually.

    The fact is that if those of us of faith are wrong, what has been lost? But if those of us of faith are on the right track; what becomes of those who have fought faith?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981

    Re: I believe

    Originally posted by rob10
    There is a heaven
    And I also believe that more people will be there than we think.
    Now your talking. A glimmer of light in a person who has gone over to the dark side of politics is reassuring
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,406
    However, had the results been different you would have posted it as definite proof of your mysticism.

    There's always a good excuse for why this "god" doesn't act the way it's believers say he should.

    The end result is always the same as if there were no god at all. Isn't that something?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,406
    The fact is that if those of us of faith are wrong, what has been lost? But if those of us of faith are on the right track; what becomes of those who have fought faith?
    Pascals wager is a false dichotomy.
    According to many differing groups of Christians faith is not enough. You must accept what they say are the correct doctrines etc. We don't' even have to step outside the the realm of differing Christian religions in order to find a group of Christians who say that YOU are going to go to hell because you hold and or reject doctrines that they say your are supposed to or not supposed to.
    So it's not a choice of either faith or non faith. It's a choice of the thousands of different religions that make up Christianity alone.

    It doesn't matter what theological view you hold or if you hold one at all. There is a group of people who say you are going to go to hell.

    We are all infidels!



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