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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,068
    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    I might end up running the duct work in this manner but the customer would have known and agreed to provide their own contractor to repair the floor and cover the ductwork.

    Exactly!
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    5,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    Anyone that condones this duct work like in the hallway, regardless of how it had to be run, would "you" allow this in your home?
    Come on mr bill. Haven't you heard of that new style, with all exposed ducts. We get alot of customers that REQUEST it. Even in non-rehab projects.

    That must be a cluster of an attic not to put it up there though.

    Original poster:
    No licensing requirements....you wouldn't happen to be in indiana would you?
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,068
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacvegas View Post
    Come on mr bill. Haven't you heard of that new style, with all exposed ducts. We get alot of customers that REQUEST it. Even in non-rehab projects.
    O yea! you know I have a pretty vivid imagination, but I would imagine running it through the ceiling onto the roof and over the roof before I would run it that way. Now no, I would never do that, I just said I would imagine that before the hallway thing.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    5,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    O yea! you know I have a pretty vivid imagination, but I would imagine running it through the ceiling onto the roof and over the roof before I would run it that way. Now no, I would never do that, I just said I would imagine that before the hallway thing.
    ....I've done that too.....:-P
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    12
    Right after I posted this, I left on vacation and am finally back, so I wanted to respond to the questions posed and thank all of you for taking the time to give me feedback on this situation.

    My main questions here were whether they should be responsible for the broken tiles. Luckily I found some extra tile in the attic, so we'll be able to fix it easily.

    In regard to the ducts, my concern was really about having two right next to each other like that... it seemed so odd to me. And whether they would throw enough air to actually cool the room. That still seems to be up for debate among the experts here, so maybe you could address that more clearly for me.

    Can I tell you the whole story... it's eating away at me and I just need to let it out...

    This whole project has been a fiasco from the start. We were working on a very short timeframe and one of the reasons we went with this contractor was because he said he could start immediately and would be finished within one month - unfortunately, I didn't get that in writing. This was the end of August and by all accounts is a great time to have this sort of system installed because installers are slow - or so I've been told.

    The day we signed the contract he brought his installer over to the house and introduced him to me. He said that he needed half down because he was going to order the equipment that day and it would be in the following week. I naively handed over the check and expected him to keep his word.

    He said that the installer would be back the next day to do measurements and draw up plans to begin building the duct work. I gave them our house blueprints (which included ductwork that was never installed - the original homeowners went with radiators instead). I thought that would help them design the plan faster.

    We both work during the day so we agreed to leave the house open for them to come and go as necessary. They said the first thing they would do was mark out where the ducts would be located. That way we could determine whether we would be happy with the locations. About a week later we came home to find black tape in several locations on the first floor. They didn't address the second floor, and even though we were probably more concerned about that, they didn't seem to be, so we didn't push the issue. We wanted them to keep moving to be done on time.

    It was probably two more weeks before we saw any evidence of work being done - maybe longer because we were already heating the house by this time. I should have written all of this down because I think this will become a legal issue. Anyway, they came and cut two holes for duct work. Unfortunately, when they were cutting one of the holes, they cut a water pipe in our radiator system. They had to shut down our heating system and repair the pipe. When they left that day, they left a mess of dust and cut carpet and even a couple of tools. I left it sitting there and took photos because by this point were were already long past the stated date for completion.

    It was probably another two weeks before someone showed up again. I raised hell with him and asked where the equipment was that I had paid for, why the ductwork wasn't already delivered, why the job was so far behind schedule. Anyway, the owner called me all pissed off because I was rude to his employee. And so I raised hell with him for being so far behind schedule. He said he had a guy quit and it put him in a pinch and with the early cool temps he was having to do a bunch of heating system calls... blah, blah, blah. But, he assured me that all of the equipment was at his shop and would be delivered that week and that all the ducts were built and simply needed to be installed. He said he'd be done within 2 weeks (by the end of October).

    Two pieces of equipment were delivered that week, but the other two were not there. A little work here and there appeared to be done, but they were not progressing with any speed. And they were NEVER there when we were home. Sometimes we work from home or work part days at the office and part at home. They NEVER came when we were there - NEVER!!!

    Finally, I called again near the end of October and questioned why they were moving so slowly, and were basically never there. I had paid for this job and they were ignoring me and doing other projects. He tried to talk his way out of it again, but slipped up and said that they were still building the ductwork. At this point, I realized that he had been lying to me the entire time and that he had no intention to finish this job in a reasonable time frame.

    So, I stopped calling him and started taking photos and notes.

    Then one day we get a call saying that they were starting the upstairs and ran into problems with running the ductwork. They needed answers right away. So, I left work, drove an hour from the job I was on and went to figure out the situation.

    As you can guess, they hadn't even looked at the attic space until that very day and realized that they couldn't fit duct work up there. This is DECEMBER!!!! So, we agreed to allow them to run the duct inside the house and lower the ceiling. I guess we didn't discuss who would pay to lower the ceiling, but I certainly don't plan to pay for this. They are the idiots who didn't bother to even look at the job until they were over 3 months into it.

    We did get another call one day about where they wanted to run the copper lines - they wanted to run them over the roof and we refused, saying they needed to run inside the house. How the hell would we replace shingles with a copper line running over them. These guys were lazy ass morons!!!!

    So, that was the last we heard from them... until we received a bill in the mail on January 18. Then I came here... and left on vacation. When I returned from vacation, I had four voicemail messages from them wanting to know when they were going to get paid?????

    Oh... and the system still isn't hooked up because our agreement with them was that we would hire our own electrical guy. We were having other electrical done and wanted to coordinate that. Well, they didn't even bother to tell us they were "done" and coordinate with our electrician. They just sent a bill.

    I'm sure I was a total jerk... but, seriously. They told me 4 weeks and it took OVER four MONTHS!!! NO ONE would consider that reasonable.

    Other issues:

    Carpet that they pulled up to put in ducts and then just shoved back down. We'll likely have to have a carpet guy come fix that.

    Broken radiator bracket from pulling carpet up. I probably won't even address that.

    Oh, and my favorite. They didn't talk to us about where we wanted the thermostats. They just put them wherever they pleased. And they put one of them right next to the other thermostat. So, now, instead of one nice digital thermostat, I have two on the wall next to each other. Really??? Who does stupid **** like this?

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,969
    Based on what I've just read, I believe the contractor had to be the lowest bidder for this job. There is a reason the good contractors have to charge more for jobs like this. They get it done on time and they get it done correctly. My guess is that your HVAC nightmare has yet to begin in earnest, but will materialize once you start using your new system.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,318
    I've seen tstats side by side many times. If it was an a/c (no heat pump)and boiler, I would have connected the boiler wiring to new stat, just to clean things up.

    I've had jobs where some of the ductwork was conditional on when we cut a hole so could see in attic. Have had to run exposed duct before due to not enough space in attic. Have fished ducts in places I could not get myself into- up to 30' runs.

    Don't know what the time issue was about

    Have had jobs where salesman stated certain things were exempt from us having to repair them- like cracked loose plaster ceilings we knew would fall apart. The tile was loose before (from the concrete) they showed up, and the grout was not sufficient to keep tile in place when cutting the hole.

    Look like floor registers to me, but not knowing the length of room or required airflow, could not tell if they will cover the whole room. Not unusual to "throw" air across a room if cannot get ducts in ceiling or floor.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,416
    You need to contact an attorney and get some advice. I'm afraid your nightmare is just beginning!
    Make your expertise uniquely valuable.

    Make your influence uniquely far-reaching.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    12
    Of course, it's always about money, but this actually wasn't the lowest price I was quoted. The lower guy specialized in geothermal systems and he was too busy anyway.

    I went with the guy who said he could do it in my timeframe. Also he is the Lennox dealer and I trust that brand name. I actually paid an upgrade for the Lennox equipment. He orignally quoted some off brand, but I didn't want to save a couple thousand on the front to turn around and spend it on electric bills. Oh... and I specified that I wanted a system that qualified for the tax credit (another reason the upgrade was worth paying for)... but, he didn't finish the job in 2011, so no tax credit for me.

    And I need to clarify that I was not working with some salesman who was just trying to make a sale. I got the quote from the owner of the company... well, it's his dad's company... but, he's semi-retired. So, this is the top guy.

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