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  1. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Ocean Pines, MD
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    7,034
    We too have the written policy on summer vacations. But we make exceptions for families. Without them what is there?
    And others at times. We figure a way to some how get by.
    My old Boss had the same policy and he would make exceptions too, but unfortunately not for his family. His wife would have enough, take the kids and go.

  2. #80
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    Dec 2009
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    maroon lazyboy
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    1,049
    glad this opened back up. Owners, what do you want brought to the table?

  3. #81
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by knave View Post
    glad this opened back up. Owners, what do you want brought to the table?
    Put yourself in the place of an owner who is about to make his first hire(s)....spin back thru the posts in this thread. You'll find 3 or 4 good candidates who have answered this in a variety of ways.

    As a sidebar, I had lunch with a guy today who is new in town. He moved here because his wife took a great job at a local college. He had his own 2-man shop where he came from.

    He offered to work for 2 weeks for free or minimum wage, then take below-scale pay to start....with the understanding that as he proved himself, he would get raises.

    Great appearance, great attitude, he brought a folder with pictures of his work.

    We don't need anyone right now....but as I've stated in other threads, if the right guy comes along, we'll make a place for him.

    Here's a guy who is eager to earn his place. How can I say "no" ?

    Now, we obviously can't and don't expect that from everyone.

    But they ARE out there. And, based on some of the responses in this thread, they're here too....and if they showed up at my door, I'd get a truck ready for them.

    It's slow now, but give it a few weeks.....if you wait 'til then, all you'll have to choose from, is what's left on the scrap heap for the most part.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  4. #82
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    19,559
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    What do YOU, as a potential employee, bring to the table? Why should I hire YOU, instead of one of the other 12 guys that applied for our current opening?

    What are your first questions of a potential employer during the interview process?

    What do I bring to the table?

    I'd probably be willing to discuss that question with an actual, potential employer.

    As an open question on an internet forum, without a potential for actual employment? It would be interpreted as bragging.

    What do I want to know?

    What is the management style? Top-down, or team approach?

    What is the communication style? Interactive, or shut up and don't ask?

    How does the company support and retain their best employees?

    Are the goals clear, and are those who attain the goals rewarded?

    In other words, am I to be working with you, or just FOR you?

    I don't need to discuss salary or vacation unless we talk about these questions, FIRST.

    How's that?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  5. #83
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    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    19,559
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    He offered to work for 2 weeks for free or minimum wage, then take below-scale pay to start....with the understanding that as he proved himself, he would get raises.

    Great appearance, great attitude, he brought a folder with pictures of his work.

    We don't need anyone right now....but as I've stated in other threads, if the right guy comes along, we'll make a place for him.

    Here's a guy who is eager to earn his place. How can I say "no" ?

    Now, we obviously can't and don't expect that from everyone.
    Here is the "bingo."

    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    He moved here because his wife took a great job at a local college.
    That's how he is able to have that approach.

    For guys that don't have a wife with a "great job," or no wife at all, that is just a nice story.

    That's the cold truth.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  6. #84
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    Oct 2011
    Location
    N.E. Indiana
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    879
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Here is the "bingo."



    That's how he is able to have that approach.

    For guys that don't have a wife with a "great job," or no wife at all, that is just a nice story.

    That's the cold truth.

    Glad you said it. I was thinking the same thing the day he posted it, but didn't comment because it would have brought out his arguementative side.

    I honestly don't know what employer in their right mind would think a tech worth their salt, would work for free, or even minimum wage.

    You'll notice too, that the wages the man offered to work for, were brought out before his qualifacations. When John framed the question about what potentials brought, he wanted wages discussed last. Seems those wages are much more relevent than he leads on, IMO anyway.

    In my neck of the woods, a wage range is usually posted with the job opening. Some jobs don't post it however. The ones that don't, I see it as a fair question when you ask in the begining part of the interview. If I had 20 years experience, as a tech, but a company was really only looking to pay someone low wages, it sure is a time saver to know that in the begining, rather than waste everyone's time going indepth with an interview.

  7. #85
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    Dec 2008
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    Dixiana, AL
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    We see many threads here, where potential employees debate at length what they think they should or should not expect/require from an employer in the way of compensation and conditions when seeking employment in our trade.

    Let's turn the question around.

    What do YOU, as a potential employee, bring to the table? Why should I hire YOU, instead of one of the other 12 guys that applied for our current opening?

    What are your first questions of a potential employer during the interview process?

    John:

    I've followed (and commented on a few times) the rest of the argument up to this point, and here's my opinion: you're pissin' up a rope tryin' to get an answer to a fair question (as quoted above). What it goes to prove is the narrow-mindedness and the "It's all about me" prima donna attitude that's so prevalent in any industry like ours. The proof of that statement is that there have only been a couple of folks that were willing to give an unqualified answer in this whole thread vs many that went the other direction.

    It baffles me when folks can't just answer a question in the spirit in which it was asked. The only people I've ever met that aren't willing to answer a question of the type you asked with an honest, straight-forward answer, are those that don't have much to bring to the table.

    Guys (and girls?): Nobody ever said that reasonable pay and benefits, good management, well thought out company policies, flexibility within management to be able to handle those weird issues that come up, fairness to employees, and on and on as brought up by everyone, every time something like this is discussed, are not very important. But every time this is discussed, it becomes one-sided to the employees view of "What can you do for me?". This thread has even brought out the "It's your responsibility as good management to get rid of me if I'm not doing what you hired me to do" statement. That's a truly sad commentary on the state of our industry. Why don't folks just do what they're supposed to do? Is there no one out there that's willing to set a high standard for themselves and then do their all out best to live up to it, or does everyone just strive for mediocrity? Are folks in our industry afraid to be held to a high standard? It seems that everyone wants to be recognized and paid as the best, but no one wants to actually have to pick up that load and carry it.

    Maybe the original question was too ambiguous, so let's ask it in more specific terms: There are 3 job openings at 3 different service companies. There are 5 mechanics looking for work. This means that we all have to put our best foot forward, 'cause we're all in competition with someone else. Assume that in your research you've learned that John's company is the one you'd like to work for because of its history of good employee relations. What is it about you as a mechanic and person that will sway his mind toward you as the prospect that he wants to hire to fill the opening in his company?

    Then again, maybe I'm naive enough to just be holdin' the rope........

  8. #86
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    Jul 2007
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    Mount Airy, MD
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    7,281
    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    Then again, maybe I'm naive enough to just be holdin' the rope........
    Might get pee on you?

    I have been following this thread as well and like what you have posted

  9. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Skokie , IL near chicago
    Posts
    1,145

    first of all......

    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    We see many threads here, where potential employees debate at length what they think they should or should not expect/require from an employer in the way of compensation and conditions when seeking employment in our trade.

    Let's turn the question around.

    What do YOU, as a potential employee, bring to the table? Why should I hire YOU, instead of one of the other 12 guys that applied for our current opening?

    What are your first questions of a potential employer during the interview process?

    ....i know all about first impressions , so i'm walking in well groomed , clean & neat hair , no visible tats , dressed commensurate for the job i'm looking for....i have a confident walk and attitude and have with me some customer references and a list of some of my accomplishments to show my prospective employer my 'a' list....now i'm asking what type of eqp't. and customers they have to see if it fits my resume . after we're at that point , then we discuss compensation , iron out all that stuff and usually there is a trial period and we're good to go.....that about sums up my work experience with job seeking and it's worked for me every time..just make good eye contact , speak clearly and distinctly , and speak professionally and you'll win every time........Jack
    B[COLOR=a friend is one who knows us , but loves us anyway

  10. #88
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    Dec 2009
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    maroon lazyboy
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    We need to bring a good attitude and a great work ethic. You can be the best tech in the world, but if you spread negativity and can't get along with the boss it means NOTHING.

  11. #89
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    Feb 2010
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    In a boiler room
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    7,224
    Quote Originally Posted by knave View Post
    We need to bring a good attitude and a great work ethic. You can be the best tech in the world, but if you spread negativity and can't get along with the boss it means NOTHING.
    What about airy?

  12. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    Granted, the opportunity that presented itself is rare.

    But perhaps more interesting, is how we got there.

    You are the employer doing the interviewer. Do you make the employee an offer, or do you ask them what the are looking for?

    I always ask.....AFTER I've made the determination that the individual will be a good fit.

    There is a reason. It is so as NOT to insult the applicant.

    If you have a car for sale in your driveway, You don't say "make me an offer", do you? You have an asking price. If I don't like your asking price, I can say "thank you" and walk away, with no harm done.

    If I make you an offer, you may be severely insulted, and as a result, we may never come to terms.

    Now, on several occasions, I've been asked for a wage that was so low, I OFFERED more. Most times, if I want the guy, I accept what he asked for. A few times, I said "thank you" and walked away.

    I asked this individual the question. His answer more than sealed the deal for me. Not because he was "cheap"....but because his offer made it plain, that he was willing to SHOW me, rather than TELL me what he brought to the table.

    I expect that he will do well, and I look forward to giving him the raises and recognition that he deserves.

    Rest assured, he won't be working for free or minimum wage.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  13. #91
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    Nov 2007
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    Sherman, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by freemind View Post
    I honestly don't know what employer in their right mind would think a tech worth their salt, would work for free, or even minimum wage.
    That, my friend, is an attitude that you must forever erase from your mind, if you have ANY real intentions of "going into business with your cousin".

    Believe me, as a business owner you will be doing plenty of FREE work, whether you like it or not.....if you plan on being around very long.

    You will run into plenty of jobs, that in the end as an owner you will wind up doing for free or at a loss, for a variety of reasons....especially as a "new" company.

    The guy I interviewed understands this clearly, as he has his license and previously ran his own shop. So, he's not as far off-base as you might think in his thought processes.....and he clearly understands his role (as I stated so many posts ago) that his purpose at my (or anyone else's) company is to be productive and profitable.

    As Timebuilder noted, not everyone has the luxury of making the offer he did....but it's not the cash that counts in this case.....it's the frame of mind.

    He's not the first person to offer that he show his employer what he can do. Nor will he be the last.

    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

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