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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    The truly successful, long-term employee typically understands two basic facts of business:

    Factoid A: A business exists to generate profit for it's stockholder(s). Period. Plain and Simple. Anything else is just window dressing.

    Factoid B: An employee exists to generate profit for said business. Period. Plain and Simple. Anything else is just window dressing.

    The sooner an employee accepts and embraces these two simple facts, the sooner they will have set themselves on a course for true success in the workplace.....whether they be an HVAC tech, a clerk in a law office, or flipping burgers at Wendy's.
    Factoid B i wrong.

    There is not an employee in the world that works to make a business a profit. They work to make money themsleves. Making the boss money is secondary.

    That isn't "greed" or "entitlement mentality", that is just capitolism.

    What you suggest is plantiation owner mentality. People are not your slaves. They are people just like you trying to earn a buck. Anything else is well, smoke and mirrors.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    Over in the Pro/Business forums, there are countless stories of guys who started as one man shops, did well, and expanded.....but over the years the PITA of employees, and their lack of profitability has driven many of them to retrench back to smaller shops.
    PITA employees huh? What stopped the owners from firing them? Or is this just a crap rolls downhill excuse? The owners can't live up to the fact they didn't do a good job managing the people and the shop.

    Sucess comes from doing a good job. Failure comes from pointing fingers at everyone and your inability to preform.

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by freemind View Post
    Factoid B i wrong.

    There is not an employee in the world that works to make a business a profit. They work to make money themsleves. Making the boss money is secondary.

    That isn't "greed" or "entitlement mentality", that is just capitolism.

    What you suggest is plantiation owner mentality. People are not your slaves. They are people just like you trying to earn a buck. Anything else is well, smoke and mirrors.
    You are clearly an ignorant fool with regard to your knowledge of how business functions in a capitalist society...and will likely join the ranks (if you aren't already there) of the perpetual malcontents, who move from company to company....always convinced that you are being screwed.

    If you don't generate profit for your employer, you have no use there. Business does not exist to create jobs. It exists to make money.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by freemind View Post
    PITA employees huh? What stopped the owners from firing them? Or is this just a crap rolls downhill excuse? The owners can't live up to the fact they didn't do a good job managing the people and the shop.

    Sucess comes from doing a good job. Failure comes from pointing fingers at everyone and your inability to preform.
    Did you not read the post? They DID...in one form or another.....and downsized.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    Sounds like a list of demands to me.......
    What are your first questions of a potential employer during the interview process?

    This was the question asked.
    This was during the "interview process" If the owner of the company does not want to hire me he/she has the opportunity to show me the door.
    I have asked these question only 4 times in 34 years of employment. I was hired in each case. I worked for one company 20 years.
    If you think these are "Demands" You may have lost the opportunity to see your company from the employees eyes.
    Most, like me, only want to do their best, make money for the company, put money in their pockets, and have a job come Monday morning.
    Never give up; Never surrender!

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    But as a business owner, you should be able to look at John's OP and realize that you didn't answer his question. You did have a list of demands - he asked "What do you bring to the table?".

    I'm a business owner, and I agree 100% with John. Employees want and want to the point that it can suffocate a company, simply because they think they're entitled. They want a guaranteed 40 hours because they're not a lowly apprentice and they're valuable to the industry, they don't want to change filters because they're not an apprentice, they don't want to sell something that's truly needed 'cause they didn't hire on to do sales, they want the company to toe the line on the way they're treated as individuals, yet they want to be in a position to make things "balance out in the end" when things don't go quite their way, they want their time off when they want it because it's theirs, but when the need arises to work on Saturday and they're not on call, it all comes down to whether or not their team's playing on TV today, it don't hurt to run errands on company time in their truck ('cause I'm so valuable), I deserve top wages because this much is what the market is in town, doesn't matter that I can't actually read and use a PT chart other than what someone else has told me about it, and the list goes on ad nauseum.

    The vast majority of employees have forgotten or never realized that this is a 2-way street. Same subject came up within a group that I've known for years (and I've watched their sense of entitlement grow to full bloom over those years, too). One of the 12 or 14 guys there was a really good mechanic that truly cared about his work and who he worked for. After a while of listening to the employer bashing and whining about being under-appreciated (even though they all made union industrial scale or better), I couldn't stand it any longer and told them that if 1/3 of the mechanics in our area would actually do what they were paid to do and gave the requisite amount of time to the company that they were paid for in doing it, that we could let half the mechanics go, 'cause there wouldn't be enough work left to go around. Didn't make me any friends, but no one was willing to argue the other side when the offer was made. Maybe it was because they had been having an impromptu meeting at the supply house for 2 hours while on company time when the conversation came up.

    I applaud John for asking this question - it's long overdue. And I'm wating to hear the responses, of which there's only been one good one so far. I guess this comes from the fact that their are laws that I have to follow that govern the way that I treat an employee, whether a good or bad employee, but where are the laws that allow me as an employer to be fair with myself and other employees when one of those employees doesn't carry his end of the stick? I can tell you some horror stories about poor employees, but on rare occasion I've had one come along that restores my faith. I reckon I just want to know why those occasions are the rare ones........
    If you read my first post: I will quote from,

    I bring trained experience. I bring workmanship and pride in my work. I bring dedication to a code of conduct for my trade. I bring compliance to all codes and laws that govern my trade, even if it may not be in the best interest of the company.

    I put the questions first, because that is the way I think. I question things.
    Never give up; Never surrender!

  7. #33
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by freemind View Post
    Factoid B i wrong.

    There is not an employee in the world that works to make a business a profit. They work to make money themsleves. Making the boss money is secondary.

    That isn't "greed" or "entitlement mentality", that is just capitolism.

    What you suggest is plantiation owner mentality. People are not your slaves. They are people just like you trying to earn a buck. Anything else is well, smoke and mirrors.
    While I agree that factoid B is very subjective, that doesn't make it incorrect. I believe that our workforce has gone from one of employer entitlement which brought about the need for unions to look out for workers rights, to one of labor entitlement where labor thinks that a company owes them a paycheck at top wages just because they show up. Neither way is correct. Unless people start looking for a meeting in the middle, eventually it's going to swing back the other way. When I was an employee, I fully understood that if I didn't bring to the table what it took to pay for myself and make a profit for the company that I'd be using my talents elsewhere. As a result, the company saw that effort and was happy to pay me well over scale plus all normal company benefits. That made me want to do that much more. It's a team effort.

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble time View Post
    If you read my first post: I will quote from,

    I bring trained experience. I bring workmanship and pride in my work. I bring dedication to a code of conduct for my trade. I bring compliance to all codes and laws that govern my trade, even if it may not be in the best interest of the company.
    I put the questions first, because that is the way I think. I question things.
    You put 4 things in that you bring to the table, but you started the post questioning the employer, and you ended the list with an argumentative statement as if you were assuming that you're prospective employer wants you to do something illegal. Just answer the question first, and throw in the ad-lib later. If I were conducting the interview and this took place I would ask you why. When you said "That's just the way I do things", then I'd have to hope that you didn't need a job too badly.

  9. #35
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    Apr 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    They're everywhere. The want their "guaranteed 40", regardless of business climate, they want this, they want that.....they want all the guarantees, but none of the risks.......Yet, when the business makes enough profit for the owner to buy his wife a nice car, the same employees go off on a rant as to how the "owner is getting rich off their backs".....

    If you want the owner's rewards, you gotta take the owner's risks......If you want all the guarantees, then you lose the risk/reward participation.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Over in the Pro/Business forums, there are countless stories of guys who started as one man shops, did well, and expanded.....but over the years the PITA of employees, and their lack of profitability has driven many of them to retrench back to smaller shops.
    When I started working (about 1964) I worked in a small shop that had 4 technicians, a bookeeper and 2 other women whose prime job was sales. This was a profit sharing business, and likely the best for employees and employer, because we all worked as a team and even though our pay scales were different, we all participated in sharing a percentage of the profits at financial year's end. There was incentive to work pretty hard on our part, and there was incentive for the owner to treat us all fairly, I probably should have stayed there (in retrospect) but the "wanderlust" hadn't left me yet...

    Anyway, there are different paths to profitability, but no profit equals no business equals no jobs... just my $0.02 worth...

  10. #36
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    Feb 2010
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    Ontario Canada
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    Klove;

    What troubles you about me wanting to do my job, while following all the rules and regulations?

    Have you ever had your boss ask you to let a cracked heat exchanger stay on over night just until they get a new one? Stating while it was cracked when you got there 24 hours is not that long! I have. I refused. I red tagged and shut it down.
    I would rather have the customer put up with a little cold than have them end up in the morgue.
    There is no reason for this anyways. New furnaces are readily available.
    Never give up; Never surrender!

  11. #37
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    Dixiana, AL
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble time View Post
    Klove;

    What troubles you about me wanting to do my job, while following all the rules and regulations?

    Have you ever had your boss ask you to let a cracked heat exchanger stay on over night just until they get a new one? Stating while it was cracked when you got there 24 hours is not that long! I have. I refused. I red tagged and shut it down.
    I would rather have the customer put up with a little cold than have them end up in the morgue.
    There is no reason for this anyways. New furnaces are readily available.
    Nothing whatsoever troubles me about you wanting to do your job as it should be done per what's legal as well as what's just plain the right thing to do. I simply want to know why you can't just answer the mans question the way it was asked, in the spirit in which it was asked. You want to get argumentative about things that have happened with your past employers - he plainly and simply wants to know what you bring to the table with you to be an asset to his company if he hires you. This is an internet service forum where we ask questions and learn things. What you're interjecting into the discussion has no bearing on the question that was asked. Start your own thread and title it "Things I'd tell my potential employer" if you want to.

  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    I fully understood that if I didn't bring to the table what it took to pay for myself and make a profit for the company that I'd be using my talents elsewhere. As a result, the company saw that effort and was happy to pay me well over scale plus all normal company benefits. That made me want to do that much more. It's a team effort.
    Exactly.

    The employee who is both productive and profitable, is typically the employee who is among the longest tenured at any company.

    The employee recognizes his/her role, and management recognizes that this person is on who is a "keeper", and sees to it that they are kept happy.

    That doesn't always mean "cash".....Happiness in a job involves a variety of circumstances and conditions. In my experience, for the truly good employee, cash is not even at the top of their needs list. Favorable working condtions, and recognition before their peers often are more important.

    I've never hired someone away from another competitor for "more money"....because in the end, if that's all they're worried about, they'll be moving along as soon as someone else offers them another fifty cents an hour....
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  13. #39
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    Apr 2006
    Location
    Toronto
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    As employees we have to recognize that employers are the ones taking all the risk financially, as I work on my own now it puts things in perspective. I think the best medicine for anyone who questions their employers compensations should try it on their own in any industry not pertaining just to hvac. My working on my own is just a goal I had to at least try it and give it an honest chance, I hope to learn from it and acquire new skills regardless of outcome.

    John, thanks for the offer

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