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  1. #144
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    Aug 2007
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    South central WI
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    257
    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty58 View Post
    I'm 23 and graduated from electrical and then hvac school. I work at a hospital in maintenance and make just over $21 an hour and im more than willing to give that up to work for a good HVAC company knowing ill probably start at 10, 11, or 12 bucks an hour. Around here your lucky to even get health insurance too. I honestly love the field. I've bought 3 or 4 books from ACCA since i graduated and still a member of RSES. My knowledge of HVAC may be a little rusty because i really havent done a whole lot since i graduated in late september of 2010 but i'd love to get back to it and learn. I have the determination and mindset to figure out any problems and if i have problems then i have no problem admitting it and getting help from someone or something. Im on call every 5 or 6 weeks at the hospital so im used to it already. Haha my dad has worked at a Cargill Pork Processing plant for 39 years. First 6 or 8 years he worked on the line cutting meat and then got into maintenance. I have no right to ***** about any of my jobs because i know he has had it worse. I worked out there for an electrical contractor. You cant imagine it. Things fall out of electrical junction boxes that has the consistency of pancake batter but is grayish whitesh with meat in it. He is by far tougher than me. But enough of that. I guess what you get from me is determination, willing to learn, willing to ask for help when needed and i wont ***** when you send me on the ****ty jobs. Haha im the new guy and thats what im for arent i???
    In my humble opinion your mentality to work for peanuts is a problem. A big one in the industry. A very close classmate of mine has done just what you think you are willing to do. He got out of school and took a job I passed up to work for a residential hvac contractor. He was excited to graduate and start working so he took the first job that came his way $12 bucks and hour. Now going on 3 years later he has experienced the residential side of hvac and some light commercial.There has been no further training with politely asking to better himself and the company. He since has married and had two children in mean time and seen a very small raise. The man is always on time and works his tail off. He does his best to border the line between repairing for a profit and selling new equipment. At 30K a year he is near poverty level supporting a wife and two kids. Did he earn a huge profit up front nope, is he now? You know it. He is looking for a place to better himself
    and regrets starting so low on the pay scale.
    The more I learn the smarter I work.

  2. #145
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by btcstudenthvacr View Post
    In my humble opinion your mentality to work for peanuts is a problem. A big one in the industry. A very close classmate of mine has done just what you think you are willing to do. He got out of school and took a job I passed up to work for a residential hvac contractor. He was excited to graduate and start working so he took the first job that came his way $12 bucks and hour. Now going on 3 years later he has experienced the residential side of hvac and some light commercial.There has been no further training with politely asking to better himself and the company. He since has married and had two children in mean time and seen a very small raise. The man is always on time and works his tail off. He does his best to border the line between repairing for a profit and selling new equipment. At 30K a year he is near poverty level supporting a wife and two kids. Did he earn a huge profit up front nope, is he now? You know it. He is looking for a place to better himself
    and regrets starting so low on the pay scale.
    I don't think that anyone advocates working cheap indefinetely. On the other hand, by working for less, he DID score a job, and some valuable experience.

    If his current employer chooses not to give him more money, he is free to look elsewhere, and NOW has experience to put on his resume/application....something he didn't have before. So, it's not like he sold himself into slavery to a plantation owner.....

    What you also overlook, is that his current employer had the "pleasure" or training him, and eating all of his mistakes over the time that he's been there....something that may be coming into play, where raises are concerned.

    And just how much "profitable repair" can a 3-year guy actually do?
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  3. #146
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    South central WI
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    257
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    I don't think that anyone advocates working cheap indefinetely. On the other hand, by working for less, he DID score a job, and some valuable experience.

    If his current employer chooses not to give him more money, he is free to look elsewhere, and NOW has experience to put on his resume/application....something he didn't have before. So, it's not like he sold himself into slavery to a plantation owner.....

    Nice analogy, but it's not far off. His current employer had told him the same.


    What you also overlook, is that his current employer had the "pleasure" or training him, and eating all of his mistakes over the time that he's been there....something that may be coming into play, where raises are concerned.

    He has had a few call backs it's a small town and a small business word gets out fast. He has had a few callbacks he ate on his own time and gas. You choose to believe it or not he was fairly well trained leaving school, I made sure of it he was under my wing. I helped with some coaching on the phone with questions after the second month employment they tossed him in a van. He caught on quick.

    And just how much "profitable repair" can a 3-year guy actually do?
    We both know $100 an hour for service rates paying a $12 an hour plus over head is still very profitable.
    The more I learn the smarter I work.

  4. #147
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    south jersey
    Posts
    1,139
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by btcstudenthvacr
    In my humble opinion your mentality to work for peanuts is a problem. A big one in the industry. A very close classmate of mine has done just what you think you are willing to do. He got out of school and took a job I passed up to work for a residential hvac contractor. He was excited to graduate and start working so he took the first job that came his way $12 bucks and hour. Now going on 3 years later he has experienced the residential side of hvac and some light commercial.There has been no further training with politely asking to better himself and the company. He since has married and had two children in mean time and seen a very small raise. The man is always on time and works his tail off. He does his best to border the line between repairing for a profit and selling new equipment. At 30K a year he is near poverty level supporting a wife and two kids. Did he earn a huge profit up front nope, is he now? You know it. He is looking for a place to better himself
    and regrets starting so low on the pay scale.


    I admire him for taking the job. I do not understand, Should he have stayed unemployed untill something better came along? He did not have to stay with the company but he probably got real comfortable. Not that there is something wrong with that.
    To many people waiting around for the perfect job. I understand we all want to be paid and I understand all sides of this argument. If all was great we would all be getting top dollar but the market does not always allow this. Sometimes you have to take what's out there for the sake of survival. I think each stop you make should be a chance to learn something new. When you think your education has stopped then maybe it is time to start looking.
    You need to put the phone down and get back to work!

  5. #148
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by btcstudenthvacr View Post
    That's your and his side of the story.....Apparently the owner has a different viewpoint? He must.

    For an employer to allow a "good" employee to leave for money alone is pretty rare. There is usually something else amiss.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  6. #149
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    South central WI
    Posts
    257
    Quote Originally Posted by jnsrose View Post
    I admire him for taking the job. I do not understand, Should he have stayed unemployed untill something better came along? He did not have to stay with the company but he probably got real comfortable. Not that there is something wrong with that.
    To many people waiting around for the perfect job. I understand we all want to be paid and I understand all sides of this argument. If all was great we would all be getting top dollar but the market does not always allow this. Sometimes you have to take what's out there for the sake of survival. I think each stop you make should be a chance to learn something new. When you think your education has stopped then maybe it is time to start looking.
    He regrets not holding out for a little more dough or at least having an open discussion of how pay raises are earned or what room for advancement was available.
    Let me ask you a few questions.

    Do you carry over past working experience "soft skills" that make you a better employee than say some kid off the street?

    Why do you want to give away decent $$ to work in the hvac trade?

    It's not the smoke and mirrors some make it out to be. Look around in few threads it's not glitz and glamor.

    Sounds to me if your in survival mode, aren't you better stay where you are at?

    Your not advancing your self if you think you can get back to $$$ your making now with inflation rising every year?

    If you really want to go into field, you will never be with out a job with a solid education and work experience just don't expect to work for one employer for long if you want to advance. That advice even came from my instructor teaching the trade.
    The more I learn the smarter I work.

  7. #150
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    Aug 2007
    Location
    South central WI
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    257
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    That's your and his side of the story.....Apparently the owner has a different viewpoint? He must.

    For an employer to allow a "good" employee to leave for money alone is pretty rare. There is usually something else amiss.
    The employer has 50 other graduates yearly willing to come in and make $12 an hour.
    Makes it pretty simple economics for the employer.
    The more I learn the smarter I work.

  8. #151
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by btcstudenthvacr View Post
    just don't expect to work for one employer for long if you want to advance. That advice even came from my instructor teaching the trade.
    That is a function of both the employer and the employee. It's not something that is solely dictated by one or the other.

    I don't know of any employers who hire in a rookie, train/teach him, and not give him raises as they improve.

    "Time" alone at a job is not reason for raises. How much better is he at his job than when he was hired? If he is the same, what cause is there for a raise? There's lots of guys out there, that aren't any better at year 5 than they were at year 2. Why then, would they deserve a raise?

    I watch my guys carefully. When I see them progressing, I call them in and give them raises. It's smarter to offer a buck, before they become disenchanted and ask for two.....Keeps both sides happier.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  9. #152
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by btcstudenthvacr View Post
    The employer has 50 other graduates yearly willing to come in and make $12 an hour.
    Makes it pretty simple economics for the employer.
    Refer to my previous post. If he's not substantially better than the new crop of graduates, there's no reason to pay him substantially more.

    It's a matter of supply and demand. To make substantially more, you must be substantially better.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  10. #153
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    Aug 2007
    Location
    South central WI
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    257
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    Refer to my previous post. If he's not substantially better than the new crop of graduates, there's no reason to pay him substantially more.

    It's a matter of supply and demand. To make substantially more, you must be substantially better.
    I can't argue with that logic.

    I can tell you the $12 hr opening that came open was from a service tech that had 22 years with the company that graduated in our class. He got the piece of paper and went to work for a local hospital maintenance for $2 an hour more. The biggest reason for leaving was loss of vacation time and retirement from the employer. How you can treat an employee that way is beyond me but it was an economic decision. I learned a heck of a lot from him during my 2yrs at school and was a unique learning experience. He brought alot to the table at school that he didn't have too, but I think he felt obligated knowing what we were up against.

    I feel like we both have beaten a dead horse but in this case it's simple greed. I'm not here to call every employer a bad employer but there are economic reasons pay has gone south in the trade.
    The more I learn the smarter I work.

  11. #154
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    Nov 2007
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    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by btcstudenthvacr View Post
    I'm not here to call every employer a bad employer but there are economic reasons pay has gone south in the trade.
    And, We have a WINNER !! Ding, Ding, Ding !!!

    You've finally hit on one of the primary purposes of this thread.

    For years, employers have had to put up with all manner of crap from employees, because we were in a boom economy and had to have the bodies......it was a seller's market.

    Now, the economy is in the can, and it's a buyer's market. Now, employers can do more than just hold a mirror under your nose to see if it fogs to qualify you for employment.

    Now, the shoe is on the other foot, and employees are the ones that have to pony up, instead of them employer. The pendelum has swung the other way.

    Thus, as employers, we now get to ask the question...."What do YOU bring to the table?".....instead of having to answer the question "Whacha gonna gimme?"....
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  12. #155
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    south jersey
    Posts
    1,139
    Student, I agree with alot of what you are saying but 12 an hour fresh out of school is not that bad. Sure there is more to be made and also less. You are correct in saying once you have the trade under your belt you could always find work but sometimes its not the best work. Thats why you get what you can out of the job and then discuss with your employer about your future there. If there is no future then it is time to move on. Your friend took the job and hopefully learned something. Grant it it was not the greatest pay but at least he was earning. Now maybe it is time if he did not already move on. If he is any good he should have no problem. Wish him luck.
    You need to put the phone down and get back to work!

  13. #156
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    Oct 2011
    Location
    N.E. Indiana
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    879
    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    What I asked has NOTHING AT ALL to do with your ability to perform the work. The problem with discussing this particular item, as I see it, is that we can't discuss what the real problem is here because the issue is in another field entirely, so let's drop this part.
    The issue were are discussing doesn't just apply to welding work. It applies to ALL industries.

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