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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Ocean Pines, MD
    Posts
    7,009
    I try to be the Boss I always wanted.

    I want the the employee that I tried to be.

    It's as simple as that.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    1,341
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    You're the first one here, to START with what you bring to the table....as opposed to a list of demands...as if you were doing me a favor by applying.

    When can you start?
    There were no "list of demands" in my statement. Just a Clarification right from the start, Will you as an employer let me do my job? Will you let me follow all the Laws and Regulation? Will you as an employer be loyal to me as you expect me to be loyal to your company? These are not Demands, They are a code of conduct that me as an employer would be proud to have an employee that does follow this and even Demands this of me.
    Never give up; Never surrender!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dixiana, AL
    Posts
    2,611
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble time View Post
    There were no "list of demands" in my statement. Just a Clarification right from the start, Will you as an employer let me do my job? Will you let me follow all the Laws and Regulation? Will you as an employer be loyal to me as you expect me to be loyal to your company? These are not Demands, They are a code of conduct that me as an employer would be proud to have an employee that does follow this and even Demands this of me.
    But as a business owner, you should be able to look at John's OP and realize that you didn't answer his question. You did have a list of demands - he asked "What do you bring to the table?".

    I'm a business owner, and I agree 100% with John. Employees want and want to the point that it can suffocate a company, simply because they think they're entitled. They want a guaranteed 40 hours because they're not a lowly apprentice and they're valuable to the industry, they don't want to change filters because they're not an apprentice, they don't want to sell something that's truly needed 'cause they didn't hire on to do sales, they want the company to toe the line on the way they're treated as individuals, yet they want to be in a position to make things "balance out in the end" when things don't go quite their way, they want their time off when they want it because it's theirs, but when the need arises to work on Saturday and they're not on call, it all comes down to whether or not their team's playing on TV today, it don't hurt to run errands on company time in their truck ('cause I'm so valuable), I deserve top wages because this much is what the market is in town, doesn't matter that I can't actually read and use a PT chart other than what someone else has told me about it, and the list goes on ad nauseum.

    The vast majority of employees have forgotten or never realized that this is a 2-way street. Same subject came up within a group that I've known for years (and I've watched their sense of entitlement grow to full bloom over those years, too). One of the 12 or 14 guys there was a really good mechanic that truly cared about his work and who he worked for. After a while of listening to the employer bashing and whining about being under-appreciated (even though they all made union industrial scale or better), I couldn't stand it any longer and told them that if 1/3 of the mechanics in our area would actually do what they were paid to do and gave the requisite amount of time to the company that they were paid for in doing it, that we could let half the mechanics go, 'cause there wouldn't be enough work left to go around. Didn't make me any friends, but no one was willing to argue the other side when the offer was made. Maybe it was because they had been having an impromptu meeting at the supply house for 2 hours while on company time when the conversation came up.

    I applaud John for asking this question - it's long overdue. And I'm wating to hear the responses, of which there's only been one good one so far. I guess this comes from the fact that their are laws that I have to follow that govern the way that I treat an employee, whether a good or bad employee, but where are the laws that allow me as an employer to be fair with myself and other employees when one of those employees doesn't carry his end of the stick? I can tell you some horror stories about poor employees, but on rare occasion I've had one come along that restores my faith. I reckon I just want to know why those occasions are the rare ones........

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble time View Post
    Questions first....

    1) Will you pay for my continuing education in the field or field related?

    2) Will you help repair or replace my tools that are stolen/broke on the job?

    These two question must be a yes answer or I walk.
    Sounds like a list of demands to me.......
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    209
    I can't speak or claim I have experience. But, what I lack in experience I make up for a willingness to learn. Hiring an in experienced person in the field gives the owner the chance to properly train the person to suit your company. If given the chance to prove myself I can show with a little guidance I can learn quickly and excel in most tasks given and complete them with above average satisfaction.
    Now are you willing to give a person who is still learning the chance to prove there are people that will still shock you?

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    261
    When talking to potential employer, this is what I bring to the table.
    If it not immoral or illegal I just do it.
    I know how to make money out of my truck.
    I know the job and do it well with little or no supervision.
    I have all the required licenses to do the job.
    When help is needed, it is given.
    When anything goes wrong, I have no excuses.
    I find out where there is a need, and fill that need.
    I show up everyday ready for work.
    I will treat your business as if it were my own.
    Every company is different and it is my resposibility to fit in.

    I think that about covers it. Wages and other compensation is what is offered and negotiated after an employer wants me to work for them. I have the final say as to what that is.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    I'm a business owner, and I agree 100% with John. Employees want and want to the point that it can suffocate a company, simply because they think they're entitled.
    Well, when I read the OP there was a deeper question which came to mind. I question as to why these 12 guys are seeking employment from John in the first place. What is preventing them from employing themselves? All too often the only reason seasoned workers are looking for employment is because there is a barrage of federal, state and local regulatory laws which act as a barrier to self-employment. In other words, they need permission from a pencil pusher in order to engage in production.

    I have seen arrangements where tradesmen have paid a “master” for nothing more than providing a masters license number for a flat fee. Obviously under this circumstance the master is nothing more than a parasite (economically speaking), and is contributing nothing whatsoever to production. Furthermore, where this regulation exists, it does not matter whether tradesmen pay a flat fee to a master for his license number or simply work under the master as an employee, the potential for parasitism still exists.

    Is John worth his salt? Maybe, maybe not. The only way to be sure is to give his employees and customers their natural freedoms back by abolishing the unnecessary regulatory barriers to self-employment. That is, let the free market do its magic. If John can maintain his arrangements under such a free market environment, then I tip my hat to him, he is a true producer. If his power as an employer is diminished, then we know that at least some of his income was the result of economically harmful state sponsored coercion in opposition to free market principles.


  8. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Lady Lake, Florida
    Posts
    799
    In all the years of my time and experience in the trade I have witness there are the few diva techs that demand more money, new truck, give me, give me, give me and quite frankly they are the younger ones doing it. Not all of them mine you. I've seen some spoiled ass old timers do it too. Those are also the ones that won't do the demeaning tasks when things are slow and ***** because heaven forbid they change filters or belts. However I have seen a very sharp climb of employers who see a two way street as long as it's going their way. One thing I learned was to observe an interviewer's body language when they brag about how they treat their employees.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    The truly successful, long-term employee typically understands two basic facts of business:

    Factoid A: A business exists to generate profit for it's stockholder(s). Period. Plain and Simple. Anything else is just window dressing.

    Factoid B: An employee exists to generate profit for said business. Period. Plain and Simple. Anything else is just window dressing.

    The sooner an employee accepts and embraces these two simple facts, the sooner they will have set themselves on a course for true success in the workplace.....whether they be an HVAC tech, a clerk in a law office, or flipping burgers at Wendy's.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Trublshter View Post
    In all the years of my time and experience in the trade I have witness there are the few diva techs that demand more money, new truck, give me, give me, give me and quite frankly they are the younger ones doing it. Not all of them mine you. I've seen some spoiled ass old timers do it too. Those are also the ones that won't do the demeaning tasks when things are slow and ***** because heaven forbid they change filters or belts. However I have seen a very sharp climb of employers who see a two way street as long as it's going their way. One thing I learned was to observe an interviewer's body language when they brag about how they treat their employees.
    They're everywhere. The want their "guaranteed 40", regardless of business climate, they want this, they want that.....they want all the guarantees, but none of the risks.......Yet, when the business makes enough profit for the owner to buy his wife a nice car, the same employees go off on a rant as to how the "owner is getting rich off their backs".....

    If you want the owner's rewards, you gotta take the owner's risks......If you want all the guarantees, then you lose the risk/reward participation.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Over in the Pro/Business forums, there are countless stories of guys who started as one man shops, did well, and expanded.....but over the years the PITA of employees, and their lack of profitability has driven many of them to retrench back to smaller shops.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by dumnut View Post
    Well, when I read the OP there was a deeper question which came to mind. I question as to why these 12 guys are seeking employment from John in the first place. What is preventing them from employing themselves? All too often the only reason seasoned workers are looking for employment is because there is a barrage of federal, state and local regulatory laws which act as a barrier to self-employment. In other words, they need permission from a pencil pusher in order to engage in production.
    Obfuscation at it's best.

    You have the same opportunity to start your own shop as anyone else does. The so-called "barriers to self employment" apply to all of us equally.

    Not only that, but not all guys have the desire to run their own business. They don't want the risks or the hassles....They just want that guaranteed paycheck.....which is fine. Self-employment isn't for everyone.

    And, the "12" number was a random number, simply to illustrate the idea that multiple people might apply for a given position.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,851
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl
    The truly successful, long-term employee typically understands two basic facts of business:

    Factoid A: A business exists to generate profit for it's stockholder(s). Period. Plain and Simple. Anything else is just window dressing.

    Factoid B: An employee exists to generate profit for said business. Period. Plain and Simple. Anything else is just window dressing.

    The sooner an employee accepts and embraces these two simple facts, the sooner they will have set themselves on a course for true success in the workplace.....whether they be an HVAC tech, a clerk in a law office, or flipping burgers at Wendy's.
    Well said.


    I'm a 17 year tech with some pretty serious certifications, qualifications and experience, but if I'm not making my boss money, I'm toast.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dixiana, AL
    Posts
    2,611
    Quote Originally Posted by dumnut View Post
    Well, when I read the OP there was a deeper question which came to mind. I question as to why these 12 guys are seeking employment from John in the first place. What is preventing them from employing themselves? All too often the only reason seasoned workers are looking for employment is because there is a barrage of federal, state and local regulatory laws which act as a barrier to self-employment. In other words, they need permission from a pencil pusher in order to engage in production.

    I have seen arrangements where tradesmen have paid a “master” for nothing more than providing a masters license number for a flat fee. Obviously under this circumstance the master is nothing more than a parasite (economically speaking), and is contributing nothing whatsoever to production. Furthermore, where this regulation exists, it does not matter whether tradesmen pay a flat fee to a master for his license number or simply work under the master as an employee, the potential for parasitism still exists.

    Is John worth his salt? Maybe, maybe not. The only way to be sure is to give his employees and customers their natural freedoms back by abolishing the unnecessary regulatory barriers to self-employment. That is, let the free market do its magic. If John can maintain his arrangements under such a free market environment, then I tip my hat to him, he is a true producer. If his power as an employer is diminished, then we know that at least some of his income was the result of economically harmful state sponsored coercion in opposition to free market principles.

    I believe you read way too much into the question.

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