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  1. Don't know yet on if Break Even point is 5 years...

    Don't know yet on if Break Even point is 5 years or less. That's the purpose of my efforts to design and implement the measurement & verification system to obtain factual data to show if there is...
  2. Summary of what I've heard / learned so far...

    Summary of what I've heard / learned so far (recommendations):

    1. Install hot gas bypass refrigerant line connection from compressor hot gas output directly to air-cooled condenser input, fully...
  3. The second chiller unit on the roof, and in the...

    The second chiller unit on the roof, and in the pictorial, that does not have any water cooled towers attached to it, has the EvaporCool system on it and functioning. At some point, once the further...
  4. Thanks for the explanations - helpful. The...

    Thanks for the explanations - helpful.

    The water cooling retro tower doesn't have, per se, a bypass for condenser water to circulate in the basin but not fall through the heat exchanger in the...
  5. This is the first time for the retro-cooling...

    This is the first time for the retro-cooling tower manufacturer to install on a chiller.

    The modified chiller is shown running in real time at http://www.welserver.com/WEL0640 . The above graphic...
  6. Correct. Have air cooled chiller. 80 tons. ...

    Correct. Have air cooled chiller. 80 tons. Carrier 30GT series. Nothing fancy.

    Correct. Added WATER cooling tower (one per circuit, inserted between compressor(s) and air-cooled condenser...
  7. Indeed the 30GTs are air cooled. Model is...

    Indeed the 30GTs are air cooled. Model is 30GT-080---61QKA (Flotronic (vs Flotronic II) controlled, across-the-line start, 460V). It does not have any hot gas bypass on either of the 2 circuits. I...
  8. Understanding of Instability of Carrier 30GT Chiller

    I design and implement measurement & verification systems for commercial HVAC systems. I have an M&V and energy monitoring/logging system implemented for Carrier 30GT series 80 ton chillers located...
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    John, thanks for the note. My GSHP HVAC / Energy...

    John, thanks for the note. My GSHP HVAC / Energy monitoring system simply illustrates good GSHP/HVAC principles - thanks for the supportive comment. Many concepts in this long thread are well...
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    I too am watching if / how much my borehole field...

    I too am watching if / how much my borehole field temperature changes long term over a period of years.

    So far I've collected 2 of the 7 years of Entering Water Temperature data that's supposedly...
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    I was just trying to provide some factual support...

    I was just trying to provide some factual support for what Shophound said, noting that my location is (relatively) the same as his (DFW), and that I have an HVAC monitoring system (...
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    Here's an example of what Shophound is talking...

    Here's an example of what Shophound is talking about, specific for his DFW location/climate.

    The red line is outside temperature - it got past 102 (F) on July 2nd (red line). Yet outside RH...
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    Here's an illustration of compressor discharge...

    Here's an illustration of compressor discharge temperature as a function of cooling vs. heating mode, for an R410A geothermal system (WaterFurnace Envision 3 ton 2 stage variable speed closed loop...
  14. shophound, with the changed weather pattern the...

    shophound, with the changed weather pattern the last few days, from the almost daily continuous sunshine to cloud cover, I've noticed that there appears to be an additional variable that affects...
  15. Shophound, yep, I agree. Every time the blown-in...

    Shophound, yep, I agree. Every time the blown-in insulation is disturbed, heat flow resistance performance is degraded. In my case I've started using fiberglass batts as additional insulation in...
  16. The RH 1-wire sensors I use are hermetically...

    The RH 1-wire sensors I use are hermetically sealed and thus are ideally suited for installation into the return and supply plenums. Take a look at...
  17. We had it done, a blower door test, for my house,...

    We had it done, a blower door test, for my house, a year or so after the house was built. We failed the test - couldn't get any measureable degree of negative pressure. Too many ceiling open-style...
  18. This image shows a couple of 1-wire technology...

    This image shows a couple of 1-wire technology temp sensors on my 2" HDPE GSHP entering and leaving water loop pipe. It reasonably illustrates sensor hook-up and what is meant by 'linear topology:'...
  19. Shophound, I've been keeping up with your posting...

    Shophound, I've been keeping up with your posting here on how the attic can affect house envelope heating, along with TB's posting on RH. These threads have been helpful reading, and I'm...
  20. Shophound, Another data logging system to...

    Shophound,

    Another data logging system to consider is this one:
    http://www.welserver.com/index.htm . It's the one I use. I live in the same DFW area as you. Here's an example of my attic using...
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    Chris, your time/effort to respond is much...

    Chris, your time/effort to respond is much appreciated.

    I'm going to pursue the link you provided - this is very helpful. Thanks.

    For my actual installation, perhaps I can find someone who...
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    I believe the 68° deep earth temp is what it...

    I believe the 68° deep earth temp is what it would be only if heat wasn't being dumped into the earth. In my case, at the moment, I'm dumping about 650 KBTU/day, or about 20 MBTU/month, into the...
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    I agree, but don't know why. My EWT at the...

    I agree, but don't know why.

    My EWT at the moment ranges from 76 - 84F, depending on time of day and/or amount of heat being rejected (about 750 KBTU per day, at about a 30 - 82 KBTU/hr rate). ...
  24. Replies
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    Bob, in general, the DeSuperHeater option on your...

    Bob, in general, the DeSuperHeater option on your GSHP unit is only operational (i.e., heats water) when the your GSHP unit is running - i.e., water loop pump(s), compressor and blower.

    The temp...
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    My opinions: 1. Clearly, don't put it in,...

    My opinions:

    1. Clearly, don't put it in, spending tens of thousands of dollars, until you've found a contractor you're comfortable with.

    2. Increase your chances of finding a contractor you're...
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    Bob, since you and I have the same Envision...

    Bob, since you and I have the same Envision model, here's a picture similar to what I think you have:

    http://www.pbase.com/neukranz/image/84286051/original.jpg


    Bottom two pipes go to the loop...
  27. Replies
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    Like the WaterFurnace Envision units, the...

    Like the WaterFurnace Envision units, the ClimateMaster Tranquility units also probably have very large surface area evap coils, which contribute a lot to humidity reduction. I don't have any...
  28. Replies
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    This is exactly the case for me - often my (two)...

    This is exactly the case for me - often my (two) units run separately, into the full loop.

    Best regards,

    Bill
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    I have a data logger on my GSHP system - see...

    I have a data logger on my GSHP system - see http://welserver.com/WEL0043/ . Two WaterFurnace Envision units, 2 stage, variable speed, 8 ton vertical well field.

    Easy to implement.

    Best...
  30. Replies
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    I am surprised that it is more cost economical to...

    I am surprised that it is more cost economical to put in 3 separate loops, versus 1 big loop.

    I have 2 units (WaterFurnace Envision 5 and 3 ton) of similar performance to your ClimateMaster units....
  31. Replies
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    Bob, when I responded above, I missed the...

    Bob, when I responded above, I missed the signifance of your comment quoted above.

    If you meant to say that your LWT is 88 and your EWT is 87, and you're confident that you understood this to...
  32. Replies
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    Bob, put together some kind of KWH monitor, and...

    Bob, put together some kind of KWH monitor, and during the day, run a test. Turn off your HVAC and everything not normally used - lights, ceiling fans, televisions, XBox360s, Wiis, cable tv set top...
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    I recommend you consider going up another foot...

    I recommend you consider going up another foot for the main level, to 10' ceilings, especially if you have an open floor plan. The illusion of a much more dramatic living area is heightened just...
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    Bob, here are some further thoughts, noting our...

    Bob, here are some further thoughts, noting our homes are similar with respect to size (3000 vs 3400 sf) and GSHP (identical WaterFurnace 5 ton unit), and noting our homes may be different with...
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    I have 3 zones on a single compressor and observe...

    I have 3 zones on a single compressor and observe the same phenomena. It's almost like you wish the thermostats could somehow synchronize amongst themselves in some fashion to reduce the amount of...
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    And are these 2 statements thus correct for a...

    And are these 2 statements thus correct for a heat pump:

    The measurement points are after the blower motor and before the evap coil?

    If a filter is part of the unit, then meaure before the...
  37. Replies
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    I recommend you call Mark Beiser / Air Worth AC &...

    I recommend you call Mark Beiser / Air Worth AC & Heating. They're located in Hurst. Call him, find out if he services the area you live in. If not, perhaps he can give you a recommendation for...
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    Very interesting, and very helpful. Thanks! ...

    Very interesting, and very helpful. Thanks!

    How did you arrive at dewpoint - measured it directly, or calculated it from DB Temp and RH?

    If you measured it directly, what did you use? Or if...
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    Thank you. Looks like max CFM for 6" metal...

    Thank you. Looks like max CFM for 6" metal should be about 118, assuming a desired fpm no higher than 600. This would be equivalent to a FR of about 0.12, I believe.

    Best regards,

    Bill
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    But wouldn't 6" be fine if it's round galvanized...

    But wouldn't 6" be fine if it's round galvanized pipe versus flex? I.e., 175 cfm for 6" pipe (at 900 fpm)?

    Best regards,

    Bill
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    Don't know. For the example above, I believe the...

    Don't know. For the example above, I believe the fan 'curve' is constant only through 0.50". I thought the example would still provide good illustration, without actually including a few footnotes,...
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    Yes, my zoning panel (IntelliZone,...

    Yes,

    my zoning panel (IntelliZone, manufactured by WaterFurnace, connected to my WF heat pump with two-stage compressor and variable-speed blower) controls both air volume and compressor staging,...
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    Here's an example of current draw for a 1/2 hp...

    Here's an example of current draw for a 1/2 hp variable-speed fan motor as a function of static pressure, where air flow is constant at 1000 CFM:

    IWC Amps
    0.12 0.32
    0.18 0.36
    0.20 0.39
    0.27...
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    Hope the above comments help. Best regards, ...

    Hope the above comments help.

    Best regards,

    Bill
  45. Replies
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    Are you sure about zone controlling not directly...

    Are you sure about zone controlling not directly adjusting the blower speed?

    For example, my zoning panel (WaterFurnace IntelliZone) directly adjusts the blower speed and directly adjusts the...
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    For my single-story 'ranch style' residence with...

    For my single-story 'ranch style' residence with a large attic / high roof:

    With my prior HVAC system, I had an Enerstat 3+2 (5 zone) controller, with its smoke terminals connected to my fire...
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    If you want to continue doing what you've been...

    If you want to continue doing what you've been doing, but in a more elegant and high-tech manner, you could replace your tstat with an AprilAir 8870 Communicating tstat, hook up an RS485 network...
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    In order to avoid abusive and rapid cycling of...

    In order to avoid abusive and rapid cycling of the HVAC unit, I believe this is exactly how modern day tstats are designed to operate. The display reading on a digital tstat is only exactly...
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    Here's an example of how a 'modern day' tstat...

    Here's an example of how a 'modern day' tstat works, showing that the tstat reacts to a lot more than just air temp (such as rate of rise of air temp, and havinging a deliberate hysterisis gap):
    ...
  50. A local firm came to look the problem over and...

    A local firm came to look the problem over and was able to fix it. Turns out the electric power connector to the compressor is designed to be attached/removed.

    Here's a few images:
    ...
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