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  1. In many areas geo has only a small cost advantage...

    In many areas geo has only a small cost advantage over gas, sometimes none at all. What do you pay for gas (per cu. ft or therm, etc) and electric?

    Did your estimates provide an estimated...
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    From another thread: Did something change...

    From another thread:


    Did something change since this post? If you were at 38F in mid-December I'm guessing your EWT is considerably lower now.
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    Can you refer me to a table as an example? I'd be...

    Can you refer me to a table as an example? I'd be happy to check it out. I've used many tables, equations, models etc and they have always made sense relative to what I'm saying.
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    I'd have to see this to believe it. Not doubting...

    I'd have to see this to believe it. Not doubting you, but there must have been other factors at work. The "contact time" is lower for each unit of water, but you have more units moving through in a...
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    With respect, it will increase it. The mean...

    With respect, it will increase it. The mean temperature in the well (or heat exchanger) will decrease which will mean a greater delta-t from the ground to the water. More heat will be added to the...
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    That's exactly what I'm saying. The difference...

    That's exactly what I'm saying. The difference increase in heat transfer from 15gpm to 100gpm may be too small to measure and would probably result in an overall system efficiency penalty due to...
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    I keep trying not to return to this thread, but...

    I keep trying not to return to this thread, but it's drawing me like a moth to a light... There's so much bad info here I know you can't really tell what's right and what isn't, but I feel like i...
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    I don't buy this. I can see if a system was used...

    I don't buy this. I can see if a system was used to heat an uninsualted shell during construction it couild far exceed the design heat load. I don't recall that being so in your case. If your system...
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    If the design load really is in the 9-ton range,...

    If the design load really is in the 9-ton range, 80-100kWh per day is not out of the question, especially this January.

    Is the 100kWh for just the heat pump, or the whole house?
  10. Yes, your calculation is correct. I'll just say...

    Yes, your calculation is correct. I'll just say that in many cases it does make sense to size the geo system to handle the full design load. It really varies a lot based on climate, load, relative...
  11. If you have past fuel use data (assuming you...

    If you have past fuel use data (assuming you haven't made major insulation changes) you can also back out the heat loss from the total degree days for each season. It would give you another data...
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    As far as I can tell he didn't design it but made...

    As far as I can tell he didn't design it but made a guess based on the area he had available and got lucky. I think a denser configuration with more pipe packaged in a smaller area would actually...
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    This is the guy I was thinking of here: ...

    This is the guy I was thinking of here:
    http://www.freewebs.com/rwooldridge/heatpump.htm
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    With flow like that available, it's criminal not...

    With flow like that available, it's criminal not to use a GSHP! I think this could certainly be made to work, but you will need to find someone who is willing to think outside the box to make it...
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    Sadly, they may indeed show up in the market and...

    Sadly, they may indeed show up in the market and people will buy them. Then, because they have no clue how to measure their dryer energy use they will see an energy savings because they want to...
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    A good analogy is one of those expensive,...

    A good analogy is one of those expensive, oil-filled electric heaters that claim huge savings since the "oil retains the heat" or some such B.S. Electric heaters, from a hairdryer to a water heater...
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    And this saves energy how? What a scam! I hope...

    And this saves energy how? What a scam! I hope the poor guy doesn't actually believe his own claims.

    I suppose there _might_ be some benefit if the original electric element was way oversized and...
  18. I think in most cases you're right - past fuel...

    I think in most cases you're right - past fuel consumption will provde a more accurate estimate (assuming you're not changing insulation, windows, etc of course). The main unknown becomes the...
  19. Interesting - I'm curious what the problems you...

    Interesting - I'm curious what the problems you had were. Were the predictions of the WF software too optimistic, or was it a case of the owners not understanding what they were seeing?
  20. That's a tough one - I think it is highly...

    That's a tough one - I think it is highly dependent on the loop configuration, heat pump pressure drop, and pump efficiency curve. Increased flow will certainly help heat transfer but at the cost of...
  21. You bring up some good points. Yes, this is for...

    You bring up some good points. Yes, this is for heating only. You could probably develop a similar rule of thumb for the cooling season, but it probably would have to be more region specific and the...
  22. Definitely NOT true, or geo systems wouldn't make...

    Definitely NOT true, or geo systems wouldn't make sense in colder climates where the ground loop temp frequently drops below freezing. The reason that air-source heat pump efficiency drops off so...
  23. Any installer who knows their business should be...

    Any installer who knows their business should be able to provide you with a reasonable estimate of power consumption, especially if you have past fuel use data. Obviously there are a lot of unknowns...
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    Rules of thumb can be very dangerous especially...

    Rules of thumb can be very dangerous especially for Geo systems - loop lengths vary hugely with load, climate, soil, type of system, etc. etc. A loop field should really be designed by a pro for the...
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    ?

    I don't fully understand what you're proposing - do you want to try to pull heat from the slab to act as a source for the geo? If so, this is unlikely to work - you generally need a much, much larger...
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    I'm glad your system seems to be working out. I'm...

    I'm glad your system seems to be working out. I'm just curious, what was it about the ceiling heat that you didn't like, just the cost, or were there comfort issues? I'm interested because I just...
  27. Most geo flow centers I've seen are a "push-pull"...

    Most geo flow centers I've seen are a "push-pull" type configuration, one on either side of the heat pump. This works well when the pressure drop through the heat pump and the ground/water/pond loop...
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    Well, the answer to your first question is that...

    Well, the answer to your first question is that it doesn't, at least not yet! My cooling load is very low, and for the few days of the year when I really need AC, a small window unit has always done...
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    On a design day (0 deg), the radiators are sized...

    On a design day (0 deg), the radiators are sized to run at 120F supply with a 10deg deltaT, constant circulation. With the reset control, they run much cooler most of the time. For example, it is...
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    fsq4cw - I've got plenty of documentation of all...

    fsq4cw - I've got plenty of documentation of all performance and design details, though I do need to get it organized better (I'm the installer, so shame on me)! The startup procedures specified by...
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    It is a water-water unit with a horizontal ground...

    It is a water-water unit with a horizontal ground loop. The hydronic side is a mix of steel panel radiators (really big ones to get the output I need at low temperature) and radiant floor/ceiling....
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    Actually, I'm using a WEL to monitor my system...

    Actually, I'm using a WEL to monitor my system now! It's a great device. I wasn't planning to monitor the pressures continuously, though it would be nice. I was just thinking of having a tech do a...
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    geothermal questions

    I just installed a hydronic “geothermal” heat pump and so far I’m pretty happy with the performance. I’m an engineer and compulsive analyst, so I monitor the compressor power and water temps...
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