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  1. Replies
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    I installed 2 Trane xv95's with XL16i heat pumps,...

    I installed 2 Trane xv95's with XL16i heat pumps, CleanEffects on both, and Honeywell IAQ thermostats. I'll shoot you an email with more details.
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    They lied. :) I'm in Buffalo and just had two...

    They lied. :) I'm in Buffalo and just had two heat pumps installed in my house, but went through the same thing. Out of five contractors, 2 basically refused, and 2 put the change from AC to HP at...
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    Yep, I have the chart; the pressure drop at 800,...

    Yep, I have the chart; the pressure drop at 800, 1000, and 1200 CFM is .10, .14, and .19. I'm not positive on the actual CFM's being delivered at this point, since my static is above the blower...
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    Also keep in mind, if you haven't yet gotten the...

    Also keep in mind, if you haven't yet gotten the quotes, the added expense to go from a straight AC unit to a HP may be less than you think. In my case with Trane XL16i's, after figuring in the...
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    You think it's possible to get it much below .25...

    You think it's possible to get it much below .25 for that elbow & filter? Enough so to make it worth it?

    Thanks!!
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    Okay, so I pulled the CleanEffects and stuck my...

    Okay, so I pulled the CleanEffects and stuck my head in there, the turning vanes aren't curved per se, but they do have four angles in them forming a curve, more or less. So better than I thought I...
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    Ahhhh, that's a MUCH nicer elbow than mine, lol. ...

    Ahhhh, that's a MUCH nicer elbow than mine, lol. I *think* the vanes had a little bit of an angle to them, like a 2-3" piece of metal with maybe a 45 degree angle or so in the middle. I honestly...
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    I was actually wondering about screens or...

    I was actually wondering about screens or protection of some sort, after the install. I looked at a few others in adjacent houses, none of which had screens either, so I just figured "eh, I guess...
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    *drool* Perhaps the non-pros would be able to...

    *drool* Perhaps the non-pros would be able to get a copy to pass on to their local pros who might be less knowledgeable? lol :D
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    Rub it in! :o

    Rub it in! :o
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    DING DING DING! Sadly, it's true....

    DING DING DING! Sadly, it's true....
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    I'll have to take a look when I get home, I know...

    I'll have to take a look when I get home, I know there are a couple of wire nutted connections next to the EIM, so perhaps they did it that way...
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    Hmmm...hard to describe. I've attached two pics....

    Hmmm...hard to describe. I've attached two pics. One is my fantastic artistic rendering of how they were angled. They were actually in a little "rack" that was attached to the inside of the ell. ...
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    I totally missed that the first time around. ...

    I totally missed that the first time around. That return trunk is actually lined. I never knew it, just noticed that when they had a piece of it open during the install. I'm guessing the installer...
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    I guess it's time to get someone back out with a...

    I guess it's time to get someone back out with a drill and a pressure gauge. :D
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    Of course that looks like the best option --...

    Of course that looks like the best option -- that's exactly what my return trunk line looks like. However, my furnace is further down the line. If they were to tap into it and go straight down, it...
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    Ah, that clarifies it. I was having trouble...

    Ah, that clarifies it. I was having trouble envisioning it. That makes sense, makes me wonder why it wasn't done like that to begin with....
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    How would you make that transition? The...

    How would you make that transition? The installer did actually build that piece of it from scratch; it's the only part of the returns that they touched -- so I'm guessing I'm going to have to offer...
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    Here are a few more that may give a better...

    Here are a few more that may give a better picture.

    beenthere, how would you make that connection?
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    Hmmm, I'd be VERY happy if I have another...

    Hmmm, I'd be VERY happy if I have another problem, lol. It's a CleanEffects filter, according to the specs from the installer manual it should be creating a .19" PD at 1200 CFM. I don't have actual...
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    Yeah, it was surprisingly hard to get a good shot...

    Yeah, it was surprisingly hard to get a good shot that close lol. I figured I'd throw 'em up anyway and see what was said. :) I'll have to find a flashlight to light it up better and try again...
  22. Both at the same time. If you have the manual,...

    Both at the same time. If you have the manual, on page 23 there is a chart showing what is energized on what type of call. I've attached below...
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    Interesting. Another "rule of thumb?" lol. That...

    Interesting. Another "rule of thumb?" lol. That would make sense as to why I was given 24x8 returns on 3 ton systems....
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    I too have high static pressure

    This is sort of a continuation of: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=176863

    My readings are (with a wet coil):

    Stage 1 -- +.34", -.56" (set to 80% of 1200cfm)
    Stage 2 -- +.44", -.65"...
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    Wiring

    Wiring: IAQ #1, Unit #1, IAQ #2, Unit #2.
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    Furnace intake/exhaust...

    Furnace intake/exhaust...
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    LOL...well I'm not an HVAC tech, so I'm never...

    LOL...well I'm not an HVAC tech, so I'm never positive of anything! But based on operation and what I've tested, everything seems to check out. I'll post wiring pics tonight. :)
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    Staging is controlled by the thermostat. I have...

    Staging is controlled by the thermostat. I have the IAQ, and according to Honeywell: "In a multi-stage system, while maintaining setpoint, several factors affect when the next stage energizes, such...
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    I'm pretty sure it's good...I've compared the...

    I'm pretty sure it's good...I've compared the thermostat and furnace wiring to the XL16i diagrams and they match, and they did indeed cut the BK jumper on the furnace. I haven't actually checked the...
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    Fairly large, about 3600sf not including finished...

    Fairly large, about 3600sf not including finished attic (which has its own system.) All 9 foot ceilings, and LOTS of 100 year old windows. I had one installer that had a pocket PC version of some...
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    Ooops, forgot those, will post tonight!

    Ooops, forgot those, will post tonight!
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    Ah, no it angles out, then goes up. Another...

    Ah, no it angles out, then goes up. Another picture illusion lol. :)
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    It may be misleading from the pic, or I might be...

    It may be misleading from the pic, or I might be misunderstanding... At the top of furnace #2 the transition angles outward in all four directions, sort of like a funnel. Is that bad?
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    Yeah, it's the angle I took the picture -- they...

    Yeah, it's the angle I took the picture -- they don't actually slope down.



    What's the effect of tapping into it like that?



    Can you explain?
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    Outdoor units... I know there will be comments...

    Outdoor units... I know there will be comments about the clearances. Unfortunately the way the house sits on the lot, there were no other options. (And they are within Trane's clearance...
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    Furnace #2...the 10" return line was added, all...

    Furnace #2...the 10" return line was added, all other duct work is older.
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    XV95/XL16i Install Pics

    Everyone's favorite threads, let the comments fly!

    Furnace #1...all of the supply duct work is new on this one, and the return drop is new as well.
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    Beenthere -- your advice is much appreciated. ...

    Beenthere -- your advice is much appreciated. I'll update this thread next week when I've had the installer back to take a look!
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    Yep, changing to 600 fpm gives me a mix of 8", 7"...

    Yep, changing to 600 fpm gives me a mix of 8", 7" and 6" actually. Is 600 fpm what you would normally design to?

    The room do have varying heat loads showing, but they're not too far off from one...
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    They did install dampers on every run as it...

    They did install dampers on every run as it leaves the trunk, so there's at least one point. :-)

    The registers all serve almost the exact same amount of space. There is a central wall that runs...
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    No flex, all metal! Pretty straightforward, one...

    No flex, all metal! Pretty straightforward, one long main trunk with the furnace in the center, 4 runs on one side, 5 on the other, all running off the trunk sides straight out and up to the floor...
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    Thanks beenthere. I actually questioned the size...

    Thanks beenthere. I actually questioned the size of the supply lines before they were installed and was assured they knew what they were doing, and they were the correct size to ensure good air...
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    Nuts. That's what I was assuming, but grasping...

    Nuts. That's what I was assuming, but grasping on a little straw of hope that I was wrong. The performance data tops out at .9 for static pressure, with 3 ton unit set at 400 CFM/TON, drawing 420w....
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    Furnace Amp Draw vs Blower Consumption

    How much power does a typical furnace draw beyond what the blower requires? I'd assume not much...

    Here's the situation: As many know I recently had dual 80k XV95's and 3t XL16i HP's installed...
  45. Yep!

    Yep!
  46. 2 Gas Furnace Stages + 2 Heat Pump Stages = 4...

    2 Gas Furnace Stages + 2 Heat Pump Stages = 4 total heating stages :)
  47. Hmm....system A seems to be oversized in both...

    Hmm....system A seems to be oversized in both heating and cooling! Also with that system (didn't notice before) the 8000 thermostat won't control all four heating stages. You'll end up with a timer...
  48. I'll say it before someone else does...no way to...

    I'll say it before someone else does...no way to tell without seeing a load calc! :D

    The real benefit of the 19 over the 16 is humidity control (at least as I understand it.) Personally I don't...
  49. Just curious, why are the installers suggesting...

    Just curious, why are the installers suggesting the XC95? You lose the lowest heating stage when combining with a two stage heat pump, effectively turning it into an XV95. At least with the XL19i...
  50. Our electricity rates WNY are around $0.15/kWh. ...

    Our electricity rates WNY are around $0.15/kWh. Even with those, looking at our natural gas rates and the performance data for the Trane XL16i, which is what I happen to have, the heat pump is FAR...
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