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  1. Replies
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    Just to resolve this thread. I spoke to a Genteq...

    Just to resolve this thread. I spoke to a Genteq technical support rep and he stated that the X13 motors can have any or all of the low voltage taps energized at once and the motor will simply run...
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    It appears to be an X13 motor using the low,...

    It appears to be an X13 motor using the low, low-medium, and medium taps. When the thermostat calls for first-stage emergency heat, the low and low-medium taps are effectively shorted through the...
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    I checked the Payne website and the only PH3Z...

    I checked the Payne website and the only PH3Z units that I could find there were R-22 units. The one that I posted the schematics for is an R-410a unit. That may explain the discrepancy.
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    Sorry. I'm trying to keep the scan small. ...

    Sorry. I'm trying to keep the scan small. Here's the whole page. As you can see, the designation at the bottom shows this to be for PH3Z-B models. It's straight from the unit documentation.
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    The model number is PH3ZNB036000AATP.

    The model number is PH3ZNB036000AATP.
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    Here is the connection diagram along with the...

    Here is the connection diagram along with the ladder diagram which happened to be next to it.

    It's a package unit.
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    I'll scan the whole schematic when I get home and...

    I'll scan the whole schematic when I get home and post it. It will be a while.
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    I don't have the number in front of me. If I...

    I don't have the number in front of me. If I remember correctly, it is a Payne PH3ZNB. . . etc. 3 tons.
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    Note 5 states that if field installed heat strips...

    Note 5 states that if field installed heat strips are used, a change in motor speed may be needed.

    The schematic indicates that the taps to the motor are control wiring since they are 24vac. ...
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    Here's a better scan of the schematic.

    Here's a better scan of the schematic.
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    According to the schematic, W2 connects directly...

    According to the schematic, W2 connects directly to medium speed (red) and FAN (green) connects directly to low speed (blue). There are no relays between the thermostat and the fan motor. Are there...
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    Blower motor speed control

    I have a three ton Payne heat pump with 15kW heat strips (little insulation in the house). Presently, the fan drives the low speed on the blower motor. When the first stage of strip heat is called...
  13. Thanks for the explanation. So as the density of...

    Thanks for the explanation. So as the density of the gas decreases, the compressor begins to "gasp" for air (or rather refrigerant). So its capacity is consequently decreased.
  14. I guess that I am trying to visualize the...

    I guess that I am trying to visualize the refrigeration cycle on a microscopic level again. I am thinking about a section of pipe in the suction line that contained only vapor. If that section were...
  15. So much for theory. Thanks anyway. I don't...

    So much for theory. Thanks anyway.

    I don't plan on heating the refrigerant line with a torch while the system is running (or while it contains refrigerant, period):).
  16. Right. Each side of the circuit is theoretically...

    Right. Each side of the circuit is theoretically "isobaric." I guess that the answer to the question is: The effect of superheat on the suction line pressure is only observable in the few seconds...
  17. I understand that the suction pressure is the...

    I understand that the suction pressure is the same throughout the suction line.

    So how about a simple yes or no answer. Here is the scenario.

    1) The system is properly charged and I have a...
  18. beenthere, would you see this in the field? ...

    beenthere, would you see this in the field?

    Would it be:
    66.0000 PSIG 13*F SH
    66.0000 PSIG 26*F SH

    In other words, if in order to get the additional 13*F SH (26-13), I stripped off the...
  19. beenthere, I gather from this that probably you...

    beenthere, I gather from this that probably you understand the question here. So do you think that there is no rise in total suction pressure due to SH or is it so small that it is negligible?
  20. Right, (badbillr), but the superheat is the...

    Right, (badbillr), but the superheat is the additional degrees above the saturation temperature at the measured pressure.

    Maybe the "K. I. S. S." form of the question would be this. Would there...
  21. The sum of the partial pressures of the two...

    The sum of the partial pressures of the two gasses.
  22. Thanks.

    Thanks.
  23. So, the partial pressure of the gas and the...

    So, the partial pressure of the gas and the partial pressure of the liquid both contribute to the total pressure of the suction line, but the additional partial pressure that the superheating of the...
  24. I think I see. The refrigerant may have been at...

    I think I see. The refrigerant may have been at or even slightly below freezing, but it didn't have enough "umph" to win the heat of fusion fight with the ambient air to keep the condensate frozen.
  25. Why? If I read the temperature of the suction...

    Why?

    If I read the temperature of the suction line without my guage on, there would be a pressure that is associated with that temperature that would be higher than what is the actual pressure is....
  26. Let me give the scenario to help clarify the...

    Let me give the scenario to help clarify the question. I am adding charge to an R-22 unit that is way undercharged (Suction pressure 25 psi). The evaporator is frosting because at 25 psig the...
  27. Theory Question: Pressure drop across evaporator

    Is the pressure drop across the evaporator enough in a normally operating system that the temperature correlating to the pressure read at the outlet of the evaporator will be lower than the coil...
  28. Theory Question: Suction Line Pressure and Superheat

    Why doesn't superheating affect the suction line pressure? Is the effect small enough that we assume that the coil temperature is the temperature associated with the suction line pressure?
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    I had one recently to lock up. That must have...

    I had one recently to lock up. That must have been the reason. When I first met the system the evaporator was almost entirely blocked with scum. It has had various other issues with airflow...
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    So if the compressor doesn't throw a rod first...

    So if the compressor doesn't throw a rod first from trying to compress liquid, do you think that consistent floodback could cause a low oil type situation?

    Looks like penetr8or answered the...
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    I guess I meant the question to be more specific....

    I guess I meant the question to be more specific. With low airflow across the evaporator on a regular basis, there would also be floodback on a regular basis. Is there something about this that...
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    Compressor Failure

    Would you expect to see a system that had a history of airflow problems finally fail with a locked compressor (problems such as evaporator coil almost entirely blocked by muck, evaporator fan motor...
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    Most common piston compressor failure mode

    What have you all found to be the most common failure mode of piston compressors: open windings, shorted windings, or locked rotor (seized piston or otherwise)?
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    Equation 1: ma*h1 = ma*h2 + q + mw*hw2 ...

    Equation 1: ma*h1 = ma*h2 + q + mw*hw2

    Equation 2: ma*W1 = ma*W2 + mw

    ----------------------------------------------

    Equation 2 becomes -----> mw = ma*W1-ma*W2
    -------then-------------> mw...
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    Correction on that. I think the equation for...

    Correction on that. I think the equation for BTU's needed to cool air from state 1 to state 2 through the dewpoint would be this:

    Btu/hr needed to cool from state 1 to state 2 = ma[(h1 - h2) +...
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    Btu/hr cooling = ma[(h1 - h2) - (W1 - W2)hw2] ...

    Btu/hr cooling = ma[(h1 - h2) - (W1 - W2)hw2]

    I am viewing this equation as telling how many BTU's/hr need to be supplied to change the enthalpy of the air from h1 to h2 through the dewpoint of...
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    I was trying to use 7000 grains/lb as a...

    I was trying to use 7000 grains/lb as a conversion factor.

    Now I see it. When you plug grains into the equation, the actual units on that are grains/lb air. This leaves you with lb h2o in the...
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    latent heat in BTU/hr = (CFM) x 60 min/hr x 0.075...

    latent heat in BTU/hr = (CFM) x 60 min/hr x 0.075 lb/ft3 x (delta humidity ratio) x 1065 BTU/lb

    latent heat in BTU/hr = 4792.5 x (CFM) x (delta humidity ratio)

    Here's a unit analysis: (sorry...
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    This is all that I can come up with: latent...

    This is all that I can come up with:

    latent heat in BTU/hr = (CFM) x 60 min/hr x 0.075 lb/ft3 x (delta humidity ratio) x 970 BTU/lb

    which gives me

    latent heat in BTU/hr = 4365 x (CFM) x...
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    Humidity Ratio is treated as being unitless in...

    Humidity Ratio is treated as being unitless in the end since it is lbs/lb. Correct? or is it grains/lb?
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    hw2*(W1-W2) is accounting for the latent heat of...

    hw2*(W1-W2) is accounting for the latent heat of the condensed water (?), but why are you subtracting it from the delta h of the moist air. It seems like it ought to be added because you are wanting...
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    hw2 is the enthalpy of the water in the air at...

    hw2 is the enthalpy of the water in the air at temperature (state) 2?
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    That solves it!!! The mass flow rate is constant...

    That solves it!!! The mass flow rate is constant through the duct. That means I must use the mass flow rate calculated with the 70 degree F air which was 1798.08 lbs/hour of air moved. If I take...
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    Yes, I see that. I would have the same amount of...

    Yes, I see that. I would have the same amount of air flowing out of the evaporator as into the evaporator, it would just be more dense since it would be cooler. The volumetric flow rate would...
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    Flex Duct and Rigid Duct Comparison

    Here is a link that may be of interest. It is a link to a paper recording the results of an experiment to compare the static pressure drop in flex duct and that in rigid duct. It also compares the...
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    Flotronic Chiller

    Do Flotronic Chillers have the ability to limit the number of compressors they use if the OSA temperature rises high enough that subcooling cannot be maintained? OSA temp here yesterday was 108...
  47. Thanks for the input on this subject. It's all...

    Thanks for the input on this subject. It's all pretty clear to me now.

    Maybe some of you guys can look at another thread that I started on the Commercial HVAC forum, "BTU/hr calculation," and...
  48. Sure, no "gifted hands." I guess the specific...

    Sure, no "gifted hands."

    I guess the specific question that I have is:

    If you traced one capillary tube to the point at which it enters the evaporator coil, and you traced that specific piece...
  49. Yes. Yes. It's all becoming clear now. So...

    Yes. Yes. It's all becoming clear now.

    So condensation on the suction line only tells you that the refrigerant temperature is below the dew point of the ambient air.

    About the other point on...
  50. I appreciate your input PHM. Let me think. ...

    I appreciate your input PHM. Let me think.

    You wrote "Say you have liquid refrigerant boiling in the suction line at 90 degrees." This would not be under normal circumstances. The R-22 PT...
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