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  1. Replies
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    I realize I have not made many friends here with...

    I realize I have not made many friends here with my often abrasive and persistent approach but my objective was for this to be understood, not to acquire converts. Cherokee has done an incredible job...
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    Cherokee, You are in the middle of the test area...

    Cherokee,
    You are in the middle of the test area and may be the best person to point out the leading a trailing causing of the increased efficiency of your system.

    Many possibilities have been...
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    1) By moving the return upstairs it places the...

    1) By moving the return upstairs it places the return in the hotter, stagnant zone and continually removes the hottest air as opposed to removing and re-cooling the cooler downstairs air.

    2) In...
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    If we were to start a thread summary maybe we...

    If we were to start a thread summary maybe we should start with what we all agree on. One could be what you just stated – that the unit had a much longer run-time with the low return vs. the high...
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    Well, I simply don’t agree with your answer. To...

    Well, I simply don’t agree with your answer. To say carpet only gets dirty where you walk is wrong because what would your furniture look like if you never dusted for 10 – 15 years? You don’t walk on...
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    There is no doubt I am a born skeptic, but its...

    There is no doubt I am a born skeptic, but its guys like Al Gore that make me that way. Just because Dr. Joe is at the top of his class doesn’t mean he cannot be challenged and forced to answer the...
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    I do not doubt the possibility but have a...

    I do not doubt the possibility but have a question first.

    Studbays with electrical holes in the top plate would move much, much more air. Why aren’t the 14” carpeted areas in front of those bays...
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    If the majority of the "ring-around-the-collar”...

    If the majority of the "ring-around-the-collar” was from infiltration then there should be significantly darker 14 1/2" spaces along the wall in front of the bays that are drilled on top, but I have...
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    There is something about short cycling that is a...

    There is something about short cycling that is a mystery to me. From this requested data are you expecting to see more or less total run time during the high return operation?

    Question two:
    If...
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    I believe that is what I said … supply leaks...

    I believe that is what I said … supply leaks cause depressurization and return leaks cause pressurization. But as it applies to Cherokees house if the rooms in the “dominant return areas” were leaky...
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    I'm trying to picture your example fitting...

    I'm trying to picture your example fitting Cherokee's situation. Was it intended to?

    I can imagine one duct leakage scenario that could be possible. That is: if there was significant supply...
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    There may be duct leakage, and if so, it should...

    There may be duct leakage, and if so, it should be found and sealed. But, if duct leakage is occurring how does it contribute to the marked improvement when the downstairs return is blocked?

    I...
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    Cherokee and I cannot access that forum. It...

    Cherokee and I cannot access that forum.

    It would be nice to concentrate on this thread before starting another one on this same subject. Examining what is happening in Xavier’s house is nearly...
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    I have remained quiet on this thread because I...

    I have remained quiet on this thread because I seem to agitate those who disagree with me and that I had a glitch with the site. I will try to remain quiet and let you pros solve it uncontested. But...
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    As said before, I am anxiously waiting for the...

    As said before, I am anxiously waiting for the comparison when the downstairs return is opened so all other variables are eliminated from the equation. Even if it resulted in a 20% savings it would...
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    That is why I asked him to join the discussion.

    That is why I asked him to join the discussion.
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    I think we are all anxiously waiting for that...

    I think we are all anxiously waiting for that comparison. It holds the proof.

    BTW, I have asked Shophound, an articulate writer on the ‘HVAC-Talk educational committee’ who vehemently denies...
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    Cherokee, Would you consider temporarily...

    Cherokee,
    Would you consider temporarily removing the blocking on your downstairs return so you could isolate and record the effects return location made?

    Lynn,
    If Cherokee did that would it...
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    Lynn, Aren’t kWhr’s being compared, not dollar...

    Lynn,
    Aren’t kWhr’s being compared, not dollar costs of the peak/off peak electricity?

    And, as you pointed out, inputting hotter air into the AC would make the AC work harder and consume more...
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    The mbrm has a ceiling fan that probably mixes...

    The mbrm has a ceiling fan that probably mixes that air very well regardless of the register throw. The other bdrms might not mix as well but you can be certain the hall and probably the stairwell...
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    Nobody can detract from the importance of the...

    Nobody can detract from the importance of the supply side but you are left with one hard question to answer. How did the power consumption drop by 30% and setpoint obtained 60% faster by simply...
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    Was your home in its present condition (as stated...

    Was your home in its present condition (as stated above) before you balanced the returns? Did drawing more return from upstairs make the biggest improvement?
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    Do you think you could get the same results...

    Do you think you could get the same results Cherokee got by re-locating supply registers, using different grilles, not increasing upstairs supply volume and using one downstairs return at floor...
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    Cherokee, You have a very good understanding of...

    Cherokee,
    You have a very good understanding of the subject because of your background and the fact that you have seen it work. I believe it will be hard to dissuade you now.

    Lyn,
    Perfect air...
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    I have also learned a lot from the pros and...

    I have also learned a lot from the pros and homeowners here and am appreciative of that. We all can learn from one another. But, the data you are coming forward with has been highly refuted by...
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    You are correct. The more returns throughout the...

    You are correct. The more returns throughout the house the less any one return can remove conditioned air or allow pooling of “bad air”. But, what I see more of is one central return where the...
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    Thank you for the response. You seem to be very...

    Thank you for the response. You seem to be very observant of your situation and have taken good records.

    As you have probably gathered I came from the understanding that return location, along...
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    No argument there. But as Cherokee discovered and...

    No argument there. But as Cherokee discovered and has shown through exact measurements, it matters which air in the house is sent back. He was sending back the downstairs air during A/C and it...
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    Cherokee, Thank you for showing your data; it is...

    Cherokee,
    Thank you for showing your data; it is an average of 32% savings in overall electric usage. Truly remarkable!

    I have a question. You say you made two changes to your current supply and...
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    A 60 % savings with no changes to the unit or...

    A 60 % savings with no changes to the unit or structure is very impressive. Maybe not quite a “miracle”, but close to it. And, I never said the “the whole profession is hiding what works". I said...
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    A little background on me is that I too come from...

    A little background on me is that I too come from a family of Engineers, (two mechanical and one chemical). This subject was discussed by us in detail and is understood very well. I also did the...
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    After rereading post #1 I’m not referring to him...

    After rereading post #1 I’m not referring to him as the OP, he dropped out of the conversation after post #1. I’m referring to Cherokee as the OP, post #2. He has a system with “90% of the return on...
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    Heatingman, I agree with your post 100%, it’s...

    Heatingman,
    I agree with your post 100%, it’s nice to see pros here get it. Too many do not.

    I’d like to expand on a few of your comments as I see it.



    In the summer, heat loads that...
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    Tell that to the OP. He has data that contradicts...

    Tell that to the OP. He has data that contradicts your claim.



    I’ve done it, and the OP has done it.



    I have no interest in thinking like “us guys”. I get my evidence from actual results...
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    Genduct, Cherokee, correct me if I’m wrong. The...

    Genduct,
    Cherokee, correct me if I’m wrong. The reason your system “works great in the winter without doing anything” is because it draws the majority of the return from the downstairs. If you left...
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    “Stumbled” is just a word. It could also be...

    “Stumbled” is just a word. It could also be phrased as “I used the laws of physics to experiment with return location and discovered that positioning them high in the summer and low in the winter...
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    The OP says he switches the returns depending on...

    The OP says he switches the returns depending on the season. He pulls the majority of return from upstairs in the summer and pulls the majority of the air from downstairs in the winter. This is...
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    I find it very strange that only people that...

    I find it very strange that only people that stumble across the importance of return location are the ones who know about it. Probably because it isn’t taught in traditional HVAC circles, such as by...
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    Cherokee, I know exactly what you did to improve...

    Cherokee,
    I know exactly what you did to improve your unit efficiency because I have done it myself a few times. It’s the miracle cure. Locating the return air to remove unwanted stagnant air and...
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