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  1. If you are a union EC and the mechanical...

    If you are a union EC and the mechanical contractor is union, then the MC needs to self-perform installing the copper cap tube stuff and any pneumatic controls. If the MC in non-union, then it...
  2. About the home automation thing... Anybody try...

    About the home automation thing... Anybody try those FUJI Electric plc's that automation direct sells?

    Another economy line looks to be made by eaton, which I saw is carried by omega...
  3. Opening an automation installation shop.

    I want to start doing installs for myself. Just subbing from controls firms who are on parts&smarts with the mechanical contractor.

    Filling in with resi work won't be a problem, until things pick...
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    I have Refrigeration Basics III. It has...

    I have Refrigeration Basics III.

    It has electrical stuff in there as well.

    Definitely a must for controls people who come from an IT background and not the mechanical service side.
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    Find somewhere you can learn on the job. You...

    Find somewhere you can learn on the job.

    You will probably have to take a pay cut.

    Tuition is never free. But reading books is free, there is tons of free reading about hvac controls on the...
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    Everything is blue, except FLN, and that is...

    Everything is blue, except FLN, and that is orange with a blue stripe.

    After installing delta, and with it's easy to observe color codes for 24vac taps, network, etc, I must say that Johnson's...
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    I want FAN410. Never work the JC anymore, but...

    I want FAN410.

    Never work the JC anymore, but it would be nice to know what I did wrong.
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    Put a transient voltage surge suppressor on your...

    Put a transient voltage surge suppressor on your 24vac power supply?

    It couldn't be done when scabbing 24vac from vav electric re-heat though.
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    you mean, like a guage stuck on the end of a hypo...

    you mean, like a guage stuck on the end of a hypo needle?
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    what do you mean? a 24VDC relay coil? huh? ...

    what do you mean? a 24VDC relay coil? huh?

    we use ribmu1c alot.
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    At what point do you put stuff out for bid? ...

    At what point do you put stuff out for bid?

    Ever put the install out for bid and do the programming in-house?

    You guys do your own upgrades?
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    Are you going to buy a VERIS, a FUNCTIONAL...

    Are you going to buy a VERIS, a FUNCTIONAL DEVICES, or what?
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    I was thinking of the 1616's.

    I was thinking of the 1616's.
  14. Replies
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    Delta is where it's at. I'm an installer, and...

    Delta is where it's at.

    I'm an installer, and it's my favorite product to install. My only gripe is no 24VAC outputs on the DSC's. But, you can't have it all....

    When I think of an...
  15. Thread: Banned

    by miller_elex
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    I am not here to troll, but I regularly get...

    I am not here to troll, but I regularly get banned for trolling on electriciantalk dot com.

    Myself, and a bunch of other regulars who are frequently banned, have our own forum for trolls at...
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    This isn't what you do? :cheers: The first...

    This isn't what you do? :cheers: The first thing I dump from the plans is the network riser diagram and the 24v transformer tap runs.
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    Nah, then I could tee-tap. I'd love to run...

    Nah, then I could tee-tap. I'd love to run network with a bunch of tee-taps, instead of having to plan it out so thoroughly.

    But I admit, LON sucks because of all those pesky MAC addresses. Who...
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    bacnet ms/tp can't be tee-tapped, except 6ft of...

    bacnet ms/tp can't be tee-tapped, except 6ft of it I guess.

    Lon stuff is made to be t-tapped ftt-10 networks.
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    I hate daisy chaining controllers. It's more...

    I hate daisy chaining controllers.

    It's more intensive than t-tapping the network. Give me a bacnet over LON protocol!

    OTOH, I look into the specs when I estimate, and I noticed peculiar...
  20. That ctrlspecbuilder looks like the drawings that...

    That ctrlspecbuilder looks like the drawings that come from the mechanical engineer. They use all the standard instrumentation and plan symbols.
  21. I like the local Alerton dealer's drawings best. ...

    I like the local Alerton dealer's drawings best. Delta's are a little clunky in comparison, but have good info. Johnson doesn't know what drawings are, and Siemens are pretty pathetic. The old...
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    We should all aspire to be like Bill.

    We should all aspire to be like Bill.
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    Your cooling water valve is FAIL OPEN spring...

    Your cooling water valve is FAIL OPEN spring return? Where do you live? In the south?

    What's up with the start/stop on the fan's drive??
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    Everything I've ever done has been floating. ...

    Everything I've ever done has been floating.

    If you want position, make a feedback input.
  25. Replies
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    5,716

    Thanks, I'm glad. You probably don't have to...

    Thanks, I'm glad. You probably don't have to worry much, as I've never seen your gear installed in a public building.

    The way controls companies pump and dump manpower, there will be no shortage...
  26. Replies
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    5,716

    Sysint, you can paint your picture however you...

    Sysint, you can paint your picture however you like, but in this state, if a man is installing DDC controls of any voltage on a prevailing wage job, and he is paid the tel-data rate, then the state...
  27. Replies
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    Glad to see the responses, but the thread kind of...

    Glad to see the responses, but the thread kind of got hijacked...

    First it got turned into a union thing, then it turned into a 'whose work is it really?' Then I lost track where it went.......
    ...
  28. Replies
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    I can empathize with owners. A union is in no...

    I can empathize with owners. A union is in no owner's best interest, no disagreements there. To say otherwise would be bald-faced retarded.

    I worked for non-union controls company who has one of...
  29. Replies
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    Nice post, lots of good points. I was in...

    Nice post, lots of good points.

    I was in Sasebo too. On the Dubuque and Juneau.
  30. Replies
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    Did I mention the U-word somewhere?? Nope, YOU...

    Did I mention the U-word somewhere?? Nope, YOU did. I brought up DDC Work being under the Electrician classification, explicitly spelled out as 'includes temperature controls.' Yet contractors...
  31. Replies
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    Reading your posts, I can assume you have no...

    Reading your posts, I can assume you have no in-house installation crew. Sure, you probably have preferred subs who install, and your service techs do the tiny jobs.

    Using trunk slammers? Come...
  32. Replies
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    In your post, you made the distinction well,...

    In your post, you made the distinction well, without labeling your job as a Service Tech. Service Techs do it all, but they are not good installers. Installers are generally monkeys, but the lead...
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    That's news to me...................

    That's news to me...................
  34. Replies
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    Sure it only takes a class B to install hvac...

    Sure it only takes a class B to install hvac controls. Yet, installing building automation temperature controls is CLASSIFIED under the Electrician occupation for prevailing wage requirements in...
  35. Replies
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    You're diplomatic, the sign of someone whose...

    You're diplomatic, the sign of someone whose worked in controls for along time.
  36. Replies
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    The step pay raises are mandated. Check with ABC...

    The step pay raises are mandated. Check with ABC / IEC.



    I never knew there was a ceiling on the wage?!




    You brought the U word into this, not me. I just brought it to attention that...
  37. Replies
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    I install exclusively DDC. Most all work right...

    I install exclusively DDC. Most all work right now is government public work.

    I don't want to understand DDC do-it-all jocks, just like I don't understand the bowl of spaghetti left in your...
  38. Replies
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    Anywhere there is a state version of the federal...

    Anywhere there is a state version of the federal Davis-Bacon it applies.

    Dude, you're smokin crack, because most all states have their own version of Davis-Bacon.

    Sure you can be paid whatever...
  39. Replies
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    Yep, reclassifying DDC Install work as tel-data...

    Yep, reclassifying DDC Install work as tel-data is.......

    drum-roll please........

    Against the Law.


    It doesn't matter what you're paid on private work, as long as it is above minimum wage....
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    Saw this on Craigslist for installers...

    http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/trd/2078307395.html

    That's a new way to get the word out..... never seen that before.
  41. Sysint, what would you recommend?? The ddc I...

    Sysint, what would you recommend??

    The ddc I do is hospitals, schools, and the like with central plants and built up AHU's. Maybe an RTU heat pump with gas here and there. Most all these owners...
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    I like ORCAView alot, but there are many many...

    I like ORCAView alot, but there are many many quirks in the software that make it frustrating for a beginner to do more than just operation. But, it is a great setup, FAR FAR superior to Alerton's...
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    I am talking about 4 conductor cables, not the...

    I am talking about 4 conductor cables, not the dedicated hit from the CP to the RTU.

    But it will pry be affected.
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    Everybody is starting to ground their common tap...

    Everybody is starting to ground their common tap on the transformers.

    The NEC is going to start getting involved with this.

    Its going to be such that WHT is all your commons now, because that...
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    There is no mandated color code for limited...

    There is no mandated color code for limited energy, except fire alarm.

    Any CAT5 cable is typically voice-data, they typically travel together in large bundles.

    A siamese cable 18/2 and coax is...
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    I install in the schools, I try to do a...

    I install in the schools,

    I try to do a really good job, as we all own the schools, even the contractor. If you get a sloppy installation, make note, and have the d1ckheads barred.

    Remember,...
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    That Green thing with the Red hat.

    What is that supposed to be?

    A hole snipe?
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    Would the pump modulated by the drive waste more...

    Would the pump modulated by the drive waste more energy pushing open the lift check held down by the 100% pump?
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    Good advice!! DiodeCutter wants you to work for...

    Good advice!! DiodeCutter wants you to work for him, then he will take credit for your hardwork and sleep soundly knowing you don't have the nuts to do anything about it and will still show up every...
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    I meant a line without partners / dealers.

    I meant a line without partners / dealers.
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