Originally posted by jultzya
I’m going to lay this out as simple as I can for your little pee brain…
Here it goes, PAY ATTENTION!
Originally posted by madeinusa
Thanks for showing the public what a fine representative you are of this trade with your continual unprofessional grasp of the English language.
English language has nothing to do with FACTS, and MATHEMATICAL equations!
....I was refering to your name calling. Obviously simple references like this throw you off.
I see simple math problems throw you off!
The furnace is the same size whether it is a 80% or a 90%, so let’s use a 100K furnace in a 80% model, and a 90% model.
Same size for comparing purposes only, but not for installing one into the clients home. You should be choosing the unit by matching the load requirements to the furnace’s output.
.....Stop drinking. Sizing has not been discussed anywhere in this thread.
Oh my, I add a comment to the discussion and you get pissy. Why do you try to mix it up by adding crap to your post to TRY to make this go your way? It’s not working!
100K input X 72% = 72,000 BTU output X 30% duct loss = 50,400 BTU @ register
50,400 / 100,000 = 49.6% loss
100K input X 88% = 88,000 BTU output X 30% duct loss = 61,600 BTU @ register
61,600 / 100,000 = 38.4% loss
So, you have changed the data once again… now instead of 5% duct loss it’s now 30%. Can you keep anything straight? And if you have a 30% duct loss (your system sucks), and you better be looking at getting it resolved for your clients!
......30% is the average loss. Obviously again, you are clueless to real world facts. Besides, you are the one who through out the 5% figure a while back which is not accurate.
I picked a number, then I used your numbers… which you can see DIDN’T help you! If the duct is in the conditioned space it is not wasted. And WILL NEVER change the real data that much. There is still going to be a huge savings with the better equipment! The efficiency difference is still there in the equipment!
49.6% - 38.4% = 11.2
But as you see, the formula screwed you again! Cause the FACTS are that the increase in Efficiency is 11.2%, which is still greater than the 10% I originally used for the simple saving figuring!
....at your 10% or my 11.2%, you still never pay for the difference after adding in additional costs and labor on high dollar repair items. You lose again. You ready to give up yet? Your nose is bleeding.
”high dollar repair items” If you would learn to install the equipment correctly you wouldn’t be seeing these “high dollar repairs” But while we are on this subject, the 80 vs. 90 single stage equipment have the same components. With the addition of a secondary heat exchanger, drain assembly and a plastic vs. metal inducer!
11.2 gain will not pay for the initial cost difference, plus when you have to pay labor for the DC motor or the secondary heat exchanger in the 90%.
Once again you’re throwing **** at the plate to TRY and help your case. You are only making yourself look even worse than you have already! I sure hope you are NOT clueless enough to believe manufactures only manufacture 90% units with ECM motors. If you DO believe this, you better go talk to your distributor! MANY (if not ALL manufactures), build 90% units with regular PSC motors.
....if you are putting in 90% with psc motors at a high cost, you are cheating your customer. I guess if you can not sell a real system, this explains everything.
Who said anything about high installation costs? Who said I couldn’t sell? You drunk again?
BTW, (just to make it clear) PSC vs. ECM has no effect on the “gas efficiency” of a unit!
.....So you are saying different CFM across the heat exchanger has no effect on efficiency?
1700 CFM is 1700 CFM, it makes no difference whether it is a PSC or ECM motor moving the air! Did you forget that we were talking about 80 vs. 90? Not PSC vs. ECM?
Secondary heat exchangers are normally guaranteed for life. They are manufactured from SS and have a plastic end cap. They are not a high failure item due to the fact they have no mechanical moving parts.
....Your are obviously clueless to what LP can do to them.
You are obviously clueless as to the proper installation and proper setup procedures for such an install!
Plus, 99% of distributors only stock 95% 2 speed 2 stage which have even lower efficiency in low flame for simplicity in inventory, but I won’t go there being you are having problems with simple math as it is.
99% figure is WRONG, as many manufactures don’t even produce 95% furnaces!
....it was a ballpark statement gomer.
Which is just another one of your inaccuracies!
Now, you add even more BULL**** to your plate, which has nothing to do with the original 80% vs. 90% Efficiency discussion. Plain and simple, if your distributor is not stocking the equipment you need, have them order it or get yourself a new distributor that can satisfy your HVAC needs.
.....you seem to get lost easy, and can not follow thought patterns
You’re the one that can’t gasp FACTS or Mathematical equations and try to blow smoke to cover them up. It’s not working BTW.
On second hand, forget it. You can’t understand the differences anyway! :(
....see what I mean, you can't follow.
I see this went right over your head!
I have also showed you (by your numbers) that the 2-stage equipment will still save tremendous amount of money or the 80% standard unit!
.....you are lost, and people who know this are laughing at you. You should stop now.
I see no one laughing, if they are… I’m sure it’s not at me. You can’t seem to understand the other people’s post on this topic either, Eh?
You also should be comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges… as in 80% single vs. 90% single and 80% two-stage vs. 90% two-stage!
.....again, you get lost easy. Go read the 100K comparison, it was for single stage.
And you added the comment about the “last sentence” did you forget this already?
Now, what was that 2hot was saying about you would bury me.
You buried yourself. When are you going to stop feeding yourself your own shoes for supper?
.....You need to spend some money on classes so you don't make a fool out of yourself.
You talking to yourself again?
Looks to me like you need to learn how to perform simple calculations before you get out here calling me names and making a fool out of yourself.
Look above, I believe EVERYONE can understand YOU LOST THIS ONE!
....One day you will realize how lost you truly are. It is really sad to watch you.
Why, cause you know your getting slammed?
Be a man and just admit it!