Another Butcher Job

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02-09-2009, 07:21 PM
dougfamous

Another Butcher Job

Got called to this big house, zone system acting up. I found this gem waiting for me:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/402/frontoz9.jpg

Note the blank spots, everyone and his brother have been working on this mess. 5 ton drive Rheem, single side return with an EAC. So, already it's sucking for air. How can we make it worse? Oooh, let's ZONE it! Sloppily installed California Economizer system. Note the bypass damper on the right dumping unfiltered air into the blower:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7296/bypassmo5.jpg

The weight is also set so that it will never open. I had one single zone operating for a half hour and the damper never even fluttered.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/248/ventqq4.jpg

The humidifier has been leaking for a while, note the water line secured down to the metal with thumb gum.

To top it all off, I can't find a zone panel. Why? Oh, because there isn't one. They wired it like so:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6240/wiringvo2.jpg

The customer was very proud of this job, he was bragging to me that the engineers at Rheem flew in to design this for him. I tried to explain that if Rheem saw what they did to this unit they'd have his warranty voided, but I guess he didn't want to acknowledge that he paid for this.
02-09-2009, 07:34 PM
coolwhip

Thats the problem, the engineers designed it.:eek:

So where do you begin with this mess? If I were to quote a price on repairs, that money would be a better investment in a new system designed properly. One that has a zone panel, motorized dampers, proper return air and bypass.

Im also wonder about the condition of the HX.
02-09-2009, 07:35 PM
KLEINman

:eek::eek: dats all i gots to say to that

P.S. - nice avatar picture, i lmao everytime i see it:D
02-09-2009, 08:03 PM
dougfamous

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLEINman

P.S. - nice avatar picture, i lmao everytime i see it:D

You can make your own at:
http://atom.smasher.org/construction/

I didn't make mine, I just thought it was the funniest I'd seen.
02-10-2009, 10:56 PM
bribone

Me thinks that the bypass damper isn't even in right. its supposed to be installed horizontally.
02-10-2009, 11:05 PM
bribone

Drain is also done wrong. a trap in the drain after a tee installed for the humidifier isn't going to do much. Also NEVER a good idea to put humidifier on front of furnace. at least if you have to do that put a metal angle underneath to channel any leaking water to the side of the furnace rather than drip inside
02-12-2009, 02:30 PM
dougfamous

The trap is superfluous anyway - with a condensate pump you don't need to trap the line.
02-13-2009, 03:52 PM
TMH58

R2D2 would be so proud.
02-13-2009, 05:44 PM
scac1971

Is that an engineered block stand. cool, I want one.
02-15-2009, 06:17 PM
james80031

Wow, he's quite an electrician also.
02-15-2009, 07:34 PM
skippedover

It's probably a good thing the by-pass never worked because at the size of that by-pass, the blower motor would be smoked ever couple months! More than likely a 6 or 7-inch by-pass would have been sufficient. As for the humidifier leak, I agree with putting a gutter under it to carry away and water but in all likliehood, nobody is servicing the accessories. That's one of the most overlooked items we find. Companies are more than willing to sell EAC's and Humidifers but none are willing to properly service them on a regular schedule. It's easy money and doesn't take much time but most companies don't do it. We do because we're there anyway on a tune-up and don't want the black eye of some "relative in the business/trade" badmouthing us at Thanksgiving when he looks at the furnace! You know they always do. That's all HVAC guys have to talk about, right? Admit it! And we've all got relatives, right? So...
02-17-2009, 09:13 PM
beachtech

Quote:

Note the bypass damper on the right dumping unfiltered air into the blower:

why does supply air need to be filtered? it has already been through the filter....

Quote:

Me thinks that the bypass damper isn't even in right. its supposed to be installed horizontally.

it can be mounted wither horizontally or vertically. as long as it is in the right direction :)

Quote:

Also NEVER a good idea to put humidifier on front of furnace.

looks to me like its after the furnace, is this not an upflow installation? cause that media filter at the bottom left sure has me confused :eek:

Quote:

at least if you have to do that put a metal angle underneath to channel any leaking water to the side of the furnace rather than drip inside

it's above the A coil.... just where is the water going to drip again??? inless you're talking about the exterior water supply connections. in that case, maybe. but that would be over kill IMO

i am not a fan of the california economizers. archaeic stuff. the zone panel is about as big as a 3x5 note pad depending on the age of this system. most contractors installed them next to the zone 1 thermostat. at least in my area. someone may not have been able to figure out the zone system and by-passed some things. and or they didn't know what they where doing. i run into that often... :( :mad: people tend to make things more difficult when they start jumping things out and by-passing things. i can see where this guy is a good candidate for a new zone system. EWC would be my fisrt choice in retrofitting this cluster.

by-pass should be sized to handle the air with only the smallest zone working. so find out how many cfm's the smallest zone needs, subtract that from you total. then you know how much by-pass is needed :) depending on the smallest zone you have, a 10-12" round is prolly the right size. 10" dumps about 750 cfm and 12" dumps about 1200 cfm's :)