UV Lights

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Originally Posted by ptbrunet

My 1.5 year old HVAC system started exhibiting a very bad DSS (Dirty Socks Syndrome) smell when I turned it on during the Christmas break. I would like to buy the most economical and cost effective UVC light, considering the long term 10 year cost of the initial purchase and replacement bulbs.

I have 2 Amana (Goodman) HVAC units, one each for each floor (1000 sq ft per floor). Each unit is dual stage (2 tons, 3 tons). The CFM for one unit is 715 and 644 for the other.

I want to install the light between the two slabs of the acoil. (That's downstream in my case but there isn't any room upstream; the furnace butts right up to the acoil enclosure.)

I am considering the American Ultraviolet Eliminator RPT which has a high output 12K hour bulb. Of the various products available, do you have a better recommendation?

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Dirty socks needs a damp spot to accumulate biological grow between cooling cycles. I have fixed it by operating the fan continuously between the cooling cycles. This dries out the entire duct/coil area between cooling cycles.
Suggest investigating your air handler and find the damp spot and clean it or shine an UV lite on it. Next dry out you ducts/a/c throughly a couple hours everyday. Drying interupts the biological growth cycle. In addition, I discharge my whole house dehu into the supply ducts which keeps everything dried out. I maintain <50%RH throughout the home. I also provide 60-80 cfm of fresh air via the dehu when the home is occupied. No DDS after that treatment. Regards TB

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Originally Posted by teddy bear

Dirty socks needs a damp spot to accumulate biological grow between cooling cycles. I have fixed it by operating the fan continuously between the cooling cycles. This dries out the entire duct/coil area between cooling cycles.
Suggest investigating your air handler and find the damp spot and clean it or shine an UV lite on it. Next dry out you ducts/a/c throughly a couple hours everyday. Drying interupts the biological growth cycle. In addition, I discharge my whole house dehu into the supply ducts which keeps everything dried out. I maintain <50%RH throughout the home. I also provide 60-80 cfm of fresh air via the dehu when the home is occupied. No DDS after that treatment. Regards TB

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I've heard many contractors have success with the Goodman UVX DM4000 in the supply and Goodman UVX PR18 over the coil for treating dirty sock syndrome in Florida, Louisiana, and Texas.

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Originally Posted by Keith Jordan

I've heard many contractors have success with the Goodman UVX DM4000 in the supply and Goodman UVX PR18 over the coil for treating dirty sock syndrome in Florida, Louisiana, and Texas.

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We have had success,with UVC over the coil only.

Doesn't seem like one in the supply would do anything.

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Originally Posted by dash

We have had success,with UVC over the coil only.

Doesn't seem like one in the supply would do anything.

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If you can take care of it with one of the coil only, then go for it. The unit in the supply is specifically designed to treat biological contaminants that are moving in the air stream. It contains 20x the UV intensity every split second, versus the UV light designed to go over the coil. In addition, it also has a section of the bulb designed to treat cooking odors, cigarette odors, VOC's, formaldehyde, etc.

I mention the unit in the ductwork because it is specifically designed to help the home owner with Indoor Air Quality (asthma, allergies, etc.) The unit over the coil will have minimal benefit to the homeowner. The light over the coil, any straight lamp over a coil, is strictly designed to only treat a stationary object and will only help with equipment cleanliness and life (maintain SEER rating, potentially save electricity, etc.)

Thus, why I mention both units. One is for equipment (PR18) health and one is for homeowners health (DM-4000).

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Originally Posted by Keith Jordan

It contains 20x the UV intensity every split second, versus the UV light designed to go over the coil. In addition, it also has a section of the bulb designed to treat cooking odors, cigarette odors, VOC's, formaldehyde, etc. One is for equipment (PR18) health and one is for homeowners health (DM-4000).

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I would be interested in reading documentation on how they measured said intensity; who they are; how the section designed to treat odors, etc. is different from the other section(s); and how they incorporate the word "health" in the literature. Links?

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Originally Posted by Irascible

I would be interested in reading documentation on how they measured said intensity; who they are; how the section designed to treat odors, etc. is different from the other section(s); and how they incorporate the word "health" in the literature. Links?

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The manufacturer of those units is www.sanuvox.com

Keith
I think you can say the unit helps to improve indoor air quality by reducing mold spores, etc. You cannot say it improves health (allergies and asthma) without studies showing that it does. I don't see the studies and I am very skeptical of the claims.

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Originally Posted by breathe easy

Keith
I think you can say the unit helps to improve indoor air quality by reducing mold spores, etc. You cannot say it improves health (allergies and asthma) without studies showing that it does. I don't see the studies and I am very skeptical of the claims.

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Be as skeptical as you like , as previously posted it does help.
I understand the diference between air filtration and air cleaning , steralization. I have had several customers who swear by uv . I would much rather controll the humidity and use a 4 inch pleated filter, but again the customers swear by them, placebo? Maybe. Also ozone is not the big bad monster it has been made out to be.It can be dangerous , but as far as cleaing the air and disinfecting it works very well. I just wouldnt want to be in the hose while its running.
Uv lights will destroy some plastics and some filter materials as well as void some warranties on drain pans etc.
My thoughts are , if a person has to have air that is that is that clean maybe they should consider their own bubble. Clean , maintain , use a good filter ,scrubbed fresh air , and maintain humidity. Anything else can be added as needed, there is no one shot prescription for everyone , some will need more , some less.

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Originally Posted by breathe easy

Keith
I think you can say the unit helps to improve indoor air quality by reducing mold spores, etc. You cannot say it improves health (allergies and asthma) without studies showing that it does. I don't see the studies and I am very skeptical of the claims.

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If it improved indoor air quality by reducing mold spores, etc. and the outcome of the occupants were less outbreaks of allergies or asthma, wouldn't that be considered an improvement in health? Anyways, I'm not stating health as a fact, I use it to make sure the contractors understand the differences between a UV light designed to clean a stationary object and a UV designed to treat contaminants in moving air.

The research page of our website has some studies. All of our products use the same formula when treating moving air - parallel installation of the lamp to the airflow, aluminum reflection to direct 100% of the UV energy where it needs to treat and high intensity quartz lamps with treatment for solarization so that the interior of the lamp does not turn black.

It's not a one product fix all scenerio in IAQ, UV is just one highly useful option, but I know you know you have to control filtration, temperature, humidity, and ventilation as well. However, how many homeowners are going to do all of that well? or even all of that.

Anyway, you've been on the board for awhile and in the industy, are you still skeptical of UV or is it more the companies that make the radical marketing claims? I haven't gotten a chance to sit down with you, but see you at the tradeshows :)

Z
Just trying to raise the level of conversation. It is my belief we have to stick with the facts when we talk about indoor air. Otherwise, we come across as "snakeoil" salesmen.

I would not dispute that some people believe that UV lights improve their allergies and asthma. But this is anecdotal - not proof. There were people who thought that the old "snakeoil" remedies improved their health as well.

A few weeks ago I attended the joint ACCA/IAQA Annual Meeting in Fort Worth. Every physician who spoke had the same message. There is no "cure all" magic box out there that leads to proven improvements in allergies and asthma. The study they mentioned consistently was the Inner City Asthma Study that showed that a comprehensive approach to environmental controls could lead to significant improvements in asthma symptoms. The environmental controls used in that study were the following:
1. Encasing mattresses and pillows with dust mite proof encasements
2. Professional extermination of rodents and insects.
3. Use of a HEPA vacuum cleaner
4. A HEPA air purifier in the patient's room

My hunch is that a good whole house purification system could be substituted for #4.

To state that an HVAC product leads to health improvements with allergies and asthma does a disservice to our industry.

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Originally Posted by Keith Jordan

The manufacturer of those units is...

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I didn't realize that you work for Sanuvox. That being the case, I would have thought you could provide more than just a link to the main page.

Published studies? White papers? Those are the things that put meat on the bones of your claims. Major claims require major proof. You are making the claims. Therefore it's up to you to provide the proof. Otherwise your posts are strictly opinion. We're all entitled to opinion of course, but given your loyalties it's entirely appropriate to ask for something substantive to back them.

Not that i disagree with any of the air filtration products either of you two offer. I have traded emails with one of you and i like the product [even if hes only selling through trane , since i go there once every 4 years]
I guess my thoughts are , what is causing the allergy? Many times it is a health problem that is the actual cause of the reaction , mostly digestive. So is this treating a symptom of the actually problem , can all of this be considered a placebo?
I dont think so , at any rate there a so many variables that go into air filtration that it is truly a case by case call imho.
Example:
Anybody mention the filthy ductwork all this is connected to in the first place?

I have a hard time separating unsubstantiated marketing claims and UV Lights. It seems like they go hand in hand.

For example, I still don't understand why the EPA logo is on the Sanuvox website. Are we to assume EPA approval or EPA endorsement?