Back before I moved into controls and was an hvac service tech I worked at a large mechanical contractor company here. At that company most of the sheet metal guys were in the sheet metal union. By the time I left that company most of them had dumped the union. That particular union gave them nothing. The guys not in the union had drastically better benefits and the pay was the same. The union guys payed more in union dues than we paid for our insurance and their union did not give them nothing more than major medical coverage. They also had no vacation or sick time but us non union guys did. They were paying more to get less.
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I remember in the mid 1980s, there was quite a demand for Honda Accords. I remember that Honda started to speed up the pace of the assembly line there in Ohio. I remember hearing on the news that people were so tired and exhausted that they were crying at the end of their shifts. What a great way to treat your employees huh?
Originally Posted by jmac00
Most CEO's and company officers have a very negative attitude towards the employees. Would you consider employee ownership a form of socialism?
Wow, Honda in Marysville, OH is starting their employees at $11.45/hour. I guess that's better than the $8.25/hour that Wally World offers?
Darn, they gotta wear company uniforms too--Asian style there. One good thing about the unions. They let their people wear blue jeans with holes and T-shirts.
Originally Posted by the mojo
IMO, this is the first post which deals with what is REALLY behind Soros and his so called 'helping' organization moveon.org.
Influencing (read that manipulating) public opinion is the way folks make $$$ in the investment markets... one has to learn how to read the 'market making' (defined as manipulation of opinion to move markets) to be successful trading.
So next time we read of this or that move to 'help the poor'... first thing to do is research to see who makes $$$ from the idea... THEN we will know the REAL reason for the so called 'help the poor' movement.
I shop at Walmart. If I shopped at Target or Kmart would I buy more American made products? No!
If I shopped at the other stores would I have more money in my pocket? No.
If Walmart went union would they absorb the increase. No. You and I would be paying for someone else's bennies.
Is it my fault because I shop there they don't offer more made in the USA products? No.
What if everyone went to target to shop?
Then Walmart would be laying off people. Is that what you want. Higher cost on products?
Btw, George Soros is not an American. He's a hypocrite. Made his money off hedge funds/capitalism and yet says he hates capitalism.
Originally Posted by exreo
Not too shabby if you are just starting out in the workforce.
A good thing to stop and remember here is..... A MINIMUM WAGE JOB IS NOT SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT A FAMILY! Get some schooling, technical training or some other means to support your family. And what ever happened to, if one job won't do it, get two?! I get tired of listening to this low wage BS...... Stop crying and get another job. You don't deserve to sit around and play video games and smoke cigarettes just because you breathe American air!!!!! This is called Capitalism, we aren't going to redistribute your ass into luxury!
One can be enslaved to a non-union company or enslaved to a union. I have experienced both. Each of the unions I have belonged to failed to help me but were great at taking my dues and spending half of it on promoting political parties I disagreed with and the other half went to big salaries for the union big shots.
I am most happy as a salaried employee for one of those big bad non-union money grubbing free market corporations providing a good living for me and my family. The only problem is the corporation can't plan for future growth and hiring because they have no idea what this goof in the Whitehouse is going to do next to the free market. You can't have socialism and be free. Socialism and the free market are opposing forces. We are moving towards socialism at a rapid rate.
Unions get squeezed out with socialism just as free market companies do as well. Everyone is a loser except for the government bcrats pulling the strings.
Buying American is a totally different argument, and my view on that is that the only way to buy American is to obviously manufacture here in America, and the only way that will happen is to tax the hell out of all imported goods. If you do that and make the Chinese clock that we pay $5 for now cost the buyer $12, then an American Manufacturer can be competitive on price and once you take price out of the buying decision, now you're only buying based on quality. Tough to do that in this economy, but if we don't do something drastic we'll lose all our manufacturing jobs to Asia, South America, etc.... As I said, this is a totally different argument, but that's my view on it.
Originally Posted by chaard
That's because the corporates bribed, coearsed, pressured your legislators to have a Right-To-Work-For-Less state. Problem is, that legislation has nothing to do with promoting an affluent middle class. Workers were sold out by their representatives.
Originally Posted by The_USC_2001
Far be it though for the workers to have their representatives.
There are many ways corporates undermine workers. Right To Work laws are written to sound like they promote worker liberty to choose when in fact they undermine liberty by weakening the most important strength workers have. Bargaining collectivly.
Maybe when American workers stop with the chump mentality and take an active part in exercising the power they have, they can stop being corporate victims.
Those Honda workers are riding on the backs of the sacrifices made by Union workers. They enjoy the very benefits others suffered for. That's OK but at least understand how different their response would be w/o unions setting the bar. They should at least acknowledge why they have a good job and all w/o any effort at all. Probably so should you. Anyone that thinks they did it all on their own has a short sighted view of the dynamic.
Originally Posted by jmac00
For a company like Walmart with their earnings, to have so little regard for those that help create that wealth is shameful. Some remarks here sound less pro Walmart but more anti-union. Too bad because who else will represent Walmart's workers or you for that matter?
I had a friend that was a Walmart employee. When she logged 37 hours they cut her to 32 so they could suspend her benefits. Put yourself in her place. What would you do especially today with little choice of jobs.
When are working people going to understand that they are in this together. There are forces working to hobble workers and reduce any influence for their own welfare they might have had.
Some here constantly $itch about people getting government assistance in any form. The increase in people not being able to make ends meet goes hand in hand with the demise of our middle class. You are your own worst enemy.
If you want to lessen government welfare, help create an economy that is healthy enough not to need it.
Every time I buy something from Walmart, which is mostly food items, I support American workers. Since Walmart is the largest employer of American workers, it seems to me that Walmart is a good thing.
If Walmart employees are unionized, the same thing would have to happen to Walmart employees that happen to all companies whose employees are organized; downsized workforce. In order to provide products and/or services for the same prices while supporting labor unions, a company must work with a smaller labor force.
Unionizing Walmart would cause thousands of Americans who are currently working to lose their jobs.
Most retailers today keep employees hours low to prevent having to pay benefits. My daughter in law works for Old Navy and has the same issues.
Originally Posted by hvacker
Just an FYI sidenote, the reason that benefits even came about in the U.S. was because of government intervention into business during WWII. Government put a freeze on businesses being able to offer workers increased wages. In order to get better workers to work for their companies, companies started adding benefits such as health insurance to the total employee compensation package. Just pointing out that it was government intervention that created another future problem area.