11 year old Carrier 58yav stumping the technician and me - yet another flame rollout
After trying to troubleshoot, reading this forum, tand having a technician out, the problem can't be solved and hoping for help here.
Equipment: carrier 58yav 110btu installed 2001. Installed in house with clay chimney flue shared with water heater. Unit installed with carrier chimney adapter designed for use in clay chimney. Chimney adapter contains standard bvss switch correctly installed in series with dss flame rollout switch and pressure switch. Installed McLean, Virginia. Clean filter, unobstructed air ingress/egress, clean single speed blower seems working fine.
History- We bought house 2005- unit had no problems until about 2009
In 2009, we had one DSS flame rollout reset in the season. Igniter also replaced this year
2010, 2011 - 2 or 3 roll outs switch reset each year
2012- last few weeks, persistent flame rollout reset after about 10 minutes of running with heat/burners fired.
2012- pressure switch replaced with factory part
2012- this week, replaced dss flame rollout switch, correct factory part
Prior to having technician out I had chimney inspected (also did myself), cleaned inside of unit carefully, measured rpm in inducer motor speed to be spec at 3400,inspected inducer motor internal fan through flue exit at top of unit and is very clean, and burners look clean. Very little to no rust.
Tech came out and measured temperature at dss rollout switch. He determined it was getting too hot. He didn't understand the chimney adapter operation entirely, but he noted that when he temporarily restricted the air entering the chimney adapter, the temperature across the rollout switch decreased. He called his supervisor and advised that "you need a liner for the chimney" but they also agreed that the chimney was in specification for the chimney adapter. I also asked why we would need to do this given that the unit worked ok for years. The tech then inspected the heat exchanger from up above by looking down from the ac coils installed above unit. He felt the heat exchanger looked very good. Neither he nor I could see obvious flame rollout in operation. As last effort, tech adjusted gas pressure valve to try to reduce gas pressure. I think he said that the air coming from the unit was a little too hot as well. This did not solve the problem. Technician left telling me to get a liner and he would remove chimney adapter. Final observation is that the chimney flue vent pipes that run for about 6 feet and 2 elbow turns should be double walled and now it is only single walled. Unclear if that is correlated to issue and if so, why it would appear as a problem now 11 years post installation.
I have run out of options and greatly appreciate any help you can provide
Here are some pictures showing system
Pictures show chimney adapter, burners, dss switch etc
Flue off and venting into room when tech tested
Thanks, will do. Want to make sure I understand and was clear in the info I provided, I may not have been clear. The tech entirely removed the vent from the unit meaning that the unit was venting directly into the room and not the chimney. The room is big enough for furnace, ac unit, water heater, washer and dryer (electric) and 2 shelves. Door was open. The CO detector in the same room (it is on wall across from furnace) went off. So given that clarification, would you still say the CO detector should have not gone off?
Originally Posted by martyinlincoln
Btw another professional chimney inspector comes tomorrow. Ahead of that I inspected again the clay pipe in the chimney leading horizontally from the room and making a quick elbow right then another quick elbow up the chimney. This is hard to inspect. I used a whistler inspection camera with a wireless video (Costco sells this package) with a 3 foot extension, 6 feet total, and put the camera gun on a pole which I could do because the videos screen is wireless. I recorded the video. The elbow area and pipe is extremely clean, clear, and good shape. Them lay liner tile on chimney section also very clean. Will see what second chimney inspector says tomorrow.
please read the thread - that is not what was said
What I said was he took the venting off and the CO detector DID go-off. This is what I wrote above.
Another technician came-out today. Here is what he stated. He did not have the equipment to do a combustion analysis.
1- The chimney adapter is common in Virginia where we live. The brick and block houses with clay lined chimneys will have these. However, I do agree with HVAC technicians in the thread that argue for lining the chimney. It definitely reduces risk and unknowns. The chimney people are coming-out. They stated that they do not normally recommend or perform lining on chimneys flues in our area if the clay is in good condition. Again not discounting any good points here, I'm just letting you know what these people are saying.
2- The unit looked good to him. No issues with HX.
3- He pulled the inducer motor. It looked good. As I noted above in my thread it had measured 3400 RPM. Fan on inducer motor was clean.
4- He reinstalled the inducer motor. This seemed to change behavior of the unit. We now had correct pressure (pretty much none) in front of the DSS switch and the chimney adapter was no longer sucking air. System ran longest since this season, 30 minutes, and no resets yet. We are awaiting the chimney folks today.'
His conclusions: Either odd/strange flaky inducer motor needs replacement or chimney has issue. While 30 minutes is not an absolute test, I'm beginning to think the inducer motor is the cause.
Chimney people are coming in about an hour. So that's where we are at. Thanks to everyone for their help thus far.