There's a real bad attitude problem around here. Take a chill pill, will ya?

Cases in point:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=56917
Question: Installer wants alternate opinions on how to start up a condenser.
Answer: This ain't a DIY site. I would have fired you, you hack.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=56125
Question: I have a mostly finished system installed by a pro. How do I finish a bit of ducting myself?
Answer: You should have called a real pro you boob.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=56808
Question: How do I buy direct from OEMs?
Answer: How dare you? You're taking food from someone's baby!

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=56956
Question: What set of tools would make a good gift?
Answer: You're a DIY'er hack in disguise. You deserve no answer.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=56887
Question: Help me with this school assigned quiz.
Answer: You're a DIY'er in disguise too! Out damn spot!

Those examples are a sampling of just the top half of the residential section. Considering how fast new threads go up, the hostility is rampant.

To be fair, my summarized replies weren't the only answers given. And I am summarizing the posts in the worst way. But when someone gets their butt reamed for no real reason in one reply and the other ten are nice, which reply do you think he remembers? What's worse is that most of the butt reamers would never do that with their customers face to face. They would politely correct and instruct and keep the vitriol to themselves. Is there any reason why we can't do that more often here?

Of course there IS a reason. A lot of "pros" act professional because they have to, not because it's in their nature or they want to. After a long day of putting on heirs in the field, they get to come here and be themselves. They relieve themselves, as it were, on anyone who reminds them of that jerk they dealt with earlier in the day. Mind you, most of the "relievers" are nice guys overall. They just use this as a sort of unfortunate therapy. Nothing makes you feel better than knowing how stupid someone else is, ay?

Answering each and every example above would be an utter waste of time. I'm addressing a common pattern of behavior. You can legitimately disagree with how I'm characterizing the severity of the problem. Any one of my specific examples may be arguable. But if you can't even see that the problem I refer to exists as more than a rare occurrence, then get some new glasses Bubba because you're prescription has run out.

And no, I do NOT refer to professional debates amongst equally knowledgeable peers. God bless them. They can rip each other apart. Frankly that's FUN. I of course refer to those seeking knowledge, perhaps with unproven ulterior motives or not, who get their heads chopped off for asking the wrong question in the wrong way or for even simply being... (*gasp*) an engineer, a lawyer, a doctor or even (God forbid) a DIY'er.

So there it is. Though I've named no one specific, no doubt someone will take it personal and give me the "who's it what for". That's OK. And no, I don't expect one thing to change as a result of this. If anything I will add to the overall butt reaming total by getting my own rear reddened. But that's OK. Knock yourself out Sparky. I can take it. :D

A point well said. I used to go to alt.hvac.com in newsgroups but the charachter assasins were just too harsh and it got to be just a series of argument threads. I hope more people see and read this and take it into consideration when replying to a question.

Don has a residential section????? Really?????

Hope I kan git sum help. I wonted to moov mi airdition that sit owtside. I sawed the lynes off and mewved it thin taped thim bak togither. I filled it up with antyfreeze but now it leeks and the penny behind the fuze overheted and cowt my trailer on fire.Wut kan i do to fix it?

Well that new installer deserved better but some of the rest of em?? Too bad, like the cheap ass engineer who had a family friend start a job that took over a year, too many of us in the trades for a long time have seen these types of guys and dealing with them is a no win situation. They act nice here and get hurt when ya goof on em, but wait till ya get involved with them, different story entirely. Been there too many times.
But, I do stay out of there for that reason, and the fact I simply don't have the time to mess with everybody?????:)

Quote:

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Originally posted by mattm
Hope I kan git sum help. I wonted to moov mi airdition that sit owtside. I sawed the lynes off and mewved it thin taped thim bak togither. I filled it up with antyfreeze but now it leeks and the penny behind the fuze overheted and cowt my trailer on fire.Wut kan i do to fix it?

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End the misery, shoot yourself and get it over with.

i thinx i mite git her dun. My unklebruther iz cumming over and he helped a gie who sawzzdid sumbody fix wun likes myne wonced. he sed i wuz stewpid cuz it needs gas insted of antifreze. im goien to the gas stashun now to git a cupple melk jugs filt up wit gas and he will help me.

As Otto said, you have stated it well. I am reminded of a biblical verse that says

“When a sieve is shaken, the husks appear.
So does a man’s faults when he speaks.
As the test of what the potter molds is in the furnace,
So in his conversation is the test of a man.

Just as the fruit of the tree shows the care it has had;
So to, does a man’s speech disclose the bent of his mind.
Praise no man before he speaks, for it is then that men are tested”.

Why not spend our efforts in making a good site…a great site?

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say how much I admire diy'ers, engineers, hacks, direct marketers and all of the people here who share this admiration. You all are the best in my book.

As for all of you who don't share my thoughts, well you can just go........

It already is a great site. If you want to help everyone do stuff that we used to get paid for, go ahead. That will give ya more time to sit home and read the bible too.

Boss should just implement a filter that grabs any thread containing the words "electrical engineer" and automatically redirect it to ARP.

With all the bickering there no one would notice.

:)

Quote:

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Originally posted by mattm
i thinx i mite git her dun. My unklebruther iz cumming over and he helped a gie who sawzzdid sumbody fix wun likes myne wonced. he sed i wuz stewpid cuz it needs gas insted of antifreze. im goien to the gas stashun now to git a cupple melk jugs filt up wit gas and he will help me.

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TOO FUNNY !! It's this kinda stupid a** sh** that keep's me coming back. Don't change nuttin'..

I think some of youse guys need a dale carnegie course.

LOL! Some of it IS too funny. Though if you wanted him to understand Dice, it might have been said "En' da mizery. Shoot yersef an git it o'er wit."

I noticed no one directly challenged the thought that there is a lot of unnecessary hostility. That is my point and I think it's a hard one to deny.

Creating a hypothetical example of a retarded homeowner doesn't change that. Even THAT idiot, if he were real, does not serve as a justifiable excuse for us to drop our professionalism and talk like arrogant jerks. If he's smart enough to ask for help, you could just politely save his life without insulting him in the process. People will recoil from insulting advice. Insult the hypothetical trailer trash while advising him and he just might pour the gasoline in just to show you who the boss is!

You are right I suppose........it's just too hard to pass up sometimes, we need to have some fun too ya know:)

double post

I too was concerned about the hostile replys and agree with you. Site rules require civility, if someone thinks
a question is a DIY,just don't reply if the question bothers you.

But it's great entertainment to see the whoopin put on the DIY'ers. For those of you that have such a big liberal heart for them, I have some advice: JOIN THE FREAKIN PEACECORP THEN GO TO SOMALIA TO PUT AC IN FOR FREE!!!

I will try to help som people sometimes but I generally stay outto the help me threads. I've had a few MGD's now so maybe I can give some helpful advice. And then again, maybe nott

Quote:

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Originally posted by Diceman
It already is a great site. If you want to help everyone do stuff that we used to get paid for, go ahead. That will give ya more time to sit home and read the bible too.

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Please do and be sure to pray for us "sinners" who try to make a living and feed our own.OH!Here we go again with the Jesus stuff.

How old are you Rob? Sheesh. You are right. It is loads of fun to berate others. Go to any school yard in America and you'll see pubescent little pukes going off on their weaker classmates. They have LOTS of fun.

It's not a question of a liberal heart. I did NOT say give away the store nor did anyone else. That issue is nothing but a straw horse. Boss could get militant and delete DIY questions left and right and it would be no skin off my nose. Quite frankly I am here for the higher level technical aspects of my trade. However, if Boss did get militant about deletion you can be sure he would be quite professional about it - even as he deleted the 10,000th question that the poster should have known not to post.

Maturity and professionalism are tough things. I have a hard time myself. I understand if you wish to save those things for paying customers. :rolleyes:

1. Age-48
2. Years in trade-33
3. Political party- Neoconsevative Republican
4. Attitude- People always want something for nothing. They get what the get when they ask for it!!

Quote:

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Originally posted by jeffkillen
Here we go again with the Jesus stuff.

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Uh... Jeff? Dice was being sarcastic. To quote someone who is sarcastically referencing the Bible as evidence that we are "going with the Jesus stuff" again is to imagine something that isn't there.

I agree.

You would be an ideal dumbocrat. You could head up their "Welfare for the A/C underpriviledged"!! BTW Boss needs to move this thread to APR section!!

One through three are fine. Number four is specious and simplisitc. Of course people want something for nothing. They want FREE advice. By that logic, virtually every homeowner who starts a thread deserves to "get what they ask for". It's open season, ay Rob?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Irascible

Quote:

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Originally posted by jeffkillen
Here we go again with the Jesus stuff.

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Uh... Jeff? Dice was being sarcastic. To quote someone who is sarcastically referencing the Bible as evidence that we are "going with the Jesus stuff" again is to imagine something that isn't there.

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Don't have any idea what your trying to say.

We all need to get our limit on them!!

Quote:

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Originally posted by jeffkillen

Quote:

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Originally posted by Irascible

Quote:

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Originally posted by jeffkillen
Here we go again with the Jesus stuff.

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Uh... Jeff? Dice was being sarcastic. To quote someone who is sarcastically referencing the Bible as evidence that we are "going with the Jesus stuff" again is to imagine something that isn't there.

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Don't have any idea what your trying to say.

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He doesn't either!!

And Rob, you'd be an ideal candidate for remedial education in the English language. You're friggin nuts if you think I resemble anything close to a Democrat. I've been a registered Republican all my life. Shall I post pictures of my registration cards?

I say give away NOTHING if that's how it should be. I also say don't be a prick when not giving it away. What part of that don't you get? Give NOTHING. That's fine. And don't act like your ten years old. That's even better.

Act like it. Quit being a closet dumbocrat!!

self delete {hyper venting}

[Edited by rob10 on 07-24-2004 at 07:06 PM]

I'll say it for the Nth time Rob.

I NEVER said give away a damn thing!

I said only that we shouldn't get so friggin indignant and hostile with homeowners and apprentices. The last time I checked, being a jerk toward the less informed in not in the Republican platform.

self delete {too strong for weak stomachs}

[Edited by rob10 on 07-24-2004 at 07:07 PM]

By your profile you are a 12 year contractor from San Francisco, and not a *Site Supporter*. Is ten or twenty bucks a month too much for all this FREE information??

LOL! Rob you have just declared that it is your "right" to berate people on a privately owned forum. It's sad because Republicans usually have a better understanding of civics than that. You can't do anything on this forum except that which its owner allows. The forum is private property. Nor do you have the "right" to berate people. Get in a cops face and insult the hell of him. Just keep doing it even though he asks you to stop and find out how far those rights will go.

But this is wasted on you. You have reduced this thread to a juvenile discussion on the right to be an ass and have declared those who disagree to be feminine. I will not answer anymore of your puerile reactions. Though it's none of your business, I purchased HVAC-Calc residential and commercial late last year. That put a few hundred bucks into Boss's pocket and I was glad to do it. However, my business is new and starting it put quite a strain on my finances. I think it's fair to leave things as is for now. Given what I've seen from site supporters, as evidenced in the start of this thread and by you, now may be a long time.

Boss,
If someone in my house declared the "right" to berate other members of it, you can be sure they'd get harsh correction that they'd accept or they'd be out. But perhaps I'm too old fashioned. Maybe it is in a site supporter's purview to berate those he determines are freeloading, feminine or even "closet dumbocrats". As American Express will tell you, membership has its rewards.

Yes it does!!! :D :D :D

Since you are from California. Check this out


http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....8&pagenumber=1

http://www.hvacloads.com/talkpics/don/smokey150.jpg

Boss says "Thread Closed" :p