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From the source I found, the refrigeration units had their own compressor room in a separate location. This one appears to be only air conditioning, and was pumped down into the condenser for the winter, if I find the report again I'll link to it

Having grown up not far from Boston, this thread reminded me of the many family discussions about the Coconut Grove fire (especially around Thanksgiving, when the Boston Globe usually ran a commemorative story), the most memorable of which was my parents relating how they had planned to go there that evening to celebrate my father's 27th birthday. The Grove's dinner and floor show were quite popular back then, but fortunately they made other plans at the last minute.

Dad was just getting started in the refrigeration business that year. Later when I was a kid in the 1950's, I remember him working with many older system with either SO2 or methyl chloride. While the SO2 was just plain nasty, methyl was rather sweet-smelling...but highly flammable, something like alcohol, so I can see how methyl chloride could indeed be a cause for the fire.

A couple of things to point out about refrigeration system of that era are that they tended to use one central compressor for all of their cooling. For instance, a meat market may have one unit serving half a dozen coolers. Also, the compressors were belt drives with open motors and controls, so it wasn't uncommon to get a flareup if you had a methyl leak.

Additionally, while air conditioning wasn't common in those days, apparently this club had it, and possibly it was incorporated into that single, water-cooled unit which also served the refrigeration, possibly with a capacity of 10-15 tons.

This an excerpt from an article in the NFPA Journal (May 2000):

Having eliminated cellulose nitrate as a possible fuel, Beller turned his attention to the refrigerant gas hypothesis. According to Robert Moulton's 1962 account of the fire, air-cooling units in the Melody
Lounge were served by a refrigerating unit behind the false wall, and
after the fire, some of its tubing had been found broken or melted. As
Moulton notes, however, none or the commonly used refrigerant gases are flammable, so this would seem rule our any refrigerant gas as being in any way responsible tor the initial flash."

Moulton also notes that, although some refrigerant gases used at the
time were toxic, there wasn't any reason to assume that the refrigerating
unit's tubing melted or broke to release the gas during the first
minutes of the tire. "It thus appears," he said, "that refrigerant gas may
be dismissed as a factor in the early stages of the fire when most fatalities occurred."

Or so it appeared in 1962. In 1993, however, David Arnold published
an article in The Boston Globe that seemed to shed doubt on this conclusion. According to Arnold, "Methyl chloride is a flammable gas that was commonly used as a refrigerant during the war years. It replaced freon, almost all of which was allocated to the military."

He goes on to say that, "it was common knowledge that the Coconut Grove was cooling beer, food...and people in the summer...with methyl chloride in system with a capacity of 10 to 15 tons." Apparently, investigators at the time thought the Cocoanut Grove was using freon or an older cooling chemical, sulfur dioxide. They didn't know about the methyl chloride, so it wasn't mentioned in their 1943 published report. No one noticed the omission because those who'd serviced the Coconut Grove cooling system never saw the report."

Refer leak ignited by some spark somewhere maybe smokers, or electric short kaboom all over.

I think this is like exhuming Lincoln's body to see what killed him....

Attachment 344371
From what I read, and taking wide liberties, and a little time on MS Paint, here is the system as I imagine it. Seem reasonable? Thoughts? Drawing it out to try to explain to OP

OK, it appears that the refrigeration unit was about a 5-ton capacity unit, water cooled receiver/condenser, and all the refrigerant (20-50) lbs had been pumped into the condenser, which was removed, inspected, and found to be severely corroded and leaking badly after the fact. If it dumped all 20-50 lbs at once, it could have had something to do with it, but it would make a hell of a sound, and it might not even all evaporate at once, since the boiling temp at atmospheric pressure is -10 Fahrenheit. Interested to see what everyone else thinks about this

From the plans, it appears that there was a boiler room in the basement too, and is likely what fed the radiator seen in the picture. I doubt whether the compressors in the room directly behind the wall were running, since the refrigerators appear to have their own compressors in a separate room. Being 28 outside, I don't think they would have used air conditioning, even with the large crowd inside. A running methyl chloride system would have a high discharge temperature, according to the sources I found, in the neighborhood of 170-180 degree compressor discharge temperature. Methyl chloride will also self-ignite in the presence of aluminum. I don't know very much about the construction of a comfort air conditioning system back then, but I doubt that they would have remotely located evaporators like shown in the picture, especially since it appears from the pictures that there was a forced-air system in place

I'd have to ask my self one question about that report.

If the room had portable AC units, to where was the heat being ejected?

This is a basement room.

It is much more likely that these "portable AC units" were actually dehumidifiers.

Here is another update....apparently the hanging unit is a heater and the speaker cabinet looking thing is a portable ac unit. See attached page from Fire Report.

Originally Posted by archt

There were over 1000 people in the nightclub when the fire started. 150-200 in the Melody Lounge in the basement where the fire started. I am attaching the floor plans. The fire started in the top left corner of the melody lounge. There is another compressor room near the refridg's so maybe the one adjacent the the melody lounge provided chilled lines for the bar area in the lounge. In which case the lines may have been up in the ceiling, what do you all think about that?


This will have the floor plans that you can blow up and still read. Just scroll down a little bit.

http://www.bostonfirehistory.org/firestory11281942.html

I just read in the investigation papers that the unit that looks like a heater is actually a cooling unit so the compressor directly behind it must have been running it. If it had a leak how obvious would it be?

There were over 1000 people in the nightclub when the fire started. 150-200 in the Melody Lounge in the basement where the fire started. I am attaching the floor plans. The fire started in the top left corner of the melody lounge. There is another compressor room near the refridg's so maybe the one adjacent the the melody lounge provided chilled lines for the bar area in the lounge. In which case the lines may have been up in the ceiling, what do you all think about that?


This will have the floor plans that you can blow up and still read. Just scroll down a little bit.

http://www.bostonfirehistory.org/firestory11281942.html

From Wikipedia, chloromethane. Sounds like some pretty nasty stuff. Although I'm not a champion of big government, thank God for our modern fire protection codes and the rules that tend to keep us safe in modern structures. This reminds me of the fire at The Station night club in West Warwick, R.I. when 100 people died at a Great White gig.

Chloromethane, also called methyl chloride, R-40 or HCC 40, is a chemical compound of the group of organic compounds called haloalkanes. It was once widely used as a refrigerant. It is a colorless extremely flammable gas with a mildly sweet odor, which is, however, detected at possibly toxic levels. Due to concerns about its toxicity, it is no longer present in consumer products. Chloromethane was first synthesized by the French chemists Jean-Baptiste Dumas and Eugene Peligot in 1835 by boiling a mixture of methanol, sulfuric acid, and sodium chloride. This method is similar to that used today.

And looking at the picture one more time, it doesnt look like it was a hot fire fed by something. The wall and furniture arent really that burned.

Maybe Ive been watching a little to much csi...

One other thought for you to consider.

There was probably piping from the compressor room to the kitchen where the cooler/freezer was. Would not be surprising if refrig piping went through the room in the picture if the comp room was right behind the wall in the picture. Still, ref pipe doesnt just start leaking large amounts in most cases.

The appliance in the picture looks like a unit heater and most likely had steam or hot water piping. Extremely unlikely it had refrigerant piped to it.

Most refrigerent leaks are very small and hard to find. They dont just start blowing like you would need to start a fire. Maybe it had something to do with the fire, but I would doubt it since it doesnt look like it started in the mech room behind the wall.

I would guess the refrigerant lines in '42 were carbon steel.

How did 400 die when there were only 200 in th bar? Boston in November thr heat was most likely on. What kind of furnace was it?

Originally Posted by bigtime

If the compressor was running and the leak was on the dicharge side it could have been a higher temp than the air. Was the compresor for comfort cooling or refrigeration? I dont think it would have seeped through the wall and caused the fire. If the refrigerant was the cause, I would think the fire started in the compressor room and spread. Looking at that picture it probably didnt start in the comp room. I would "guess" the refrigerant did not have anything to do with it.

It was for refrigeration. Is the appliance in the photo definitely gas, it could not be a cooling radiator could it? In 42' were cooling lines run in steel pipe?
Methyl C is highly flammable and may have had nothing to do with the fire but many people believe it acted as the accelerant for the fire. But if it did how did it get to the ceiling.

I'm no chemist, but methyl chloride doesn't sound very flammable to me. It would probably decompose at high temperatures, causing irritating and possibly deadly gas, but I don't think it would start a self-sustaining fire

If the compressor was running and the leak was on the dicharge side it could have been a higher temp than the air. Was the compresor for comfort cooling or refrigeration? I dont think it would have seeped through the wall and caused the fire. If the refrigerant was the cause, I would think the fire started in the compressor room and spread. Looking at that picture it probably didnt start in the comp room. I would "guess" the refrigerant did not have anything to do with it.

Coconut Grove Fire

Hi everyone,

I am an architect doing some research on the 1942 coconut grove fire in boston the fire killed 492 people. Behind a wall where the fire started in a basement lounge was the compressor room. A room of about 5' wide x 30 feet long.
The compressor ran on methyl chloride. The fire was spotted in the lounge in a corner at the ceiling, the corner shown in the attached photo. the lounge was aprox. 30' x 50' and packed with about 150-200 people. It was november so I doubt the heater shown in the photo was on. The fire was first started on the ceiling and spread across the ceiling igniting a fabric covering and traveling upstairs in a fireball and smoke along the ceiling and into the big ballroom ceiling. My question is if gas was leaking from the compressor could it have been leaking at a higher temperature than the air around it (the compressor room had a fan in a window near the compressor so I assume it was around 50 of 60 f ) and thus been able to leach through the wall near the ceiling maybe saturating the fabric ceiling near the heater? Methyl chloride is heavier than air so I am trying to figure how it could have gotten up to the ceiling. Could the heaters fan have helped draw the gas to the ceiling. I imagine the heater would be running before patrons started to come to the nightclub.

Any help would be appreciated.