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The right terminology means so much,it is "Evacuate" the chiller. Not "vacuum" the system/compressor. As far as the O.P. goes, hope by now the problem has been handled by a professional crew,and is resolved.
From my research of the issues and with the help from a "few" guys on this thread. I would agree with what you said. I don't think the panel was the issue but poor PM and oversight. The motor was the original motor, when Trane got the new panel in they commission it and everything seemed to be OK and ran for a while. however air in the system and low freon i think caused havoc on the motor with the surging. They said they ran the unit slowly bringing it up as they purged, but who knows. I feel they should have vacuumed as much air out before starting and not putting the strain on the motor. not having past megg readings don't help. But from this experience i will adopt new PM policies. The service report you see is when the unit was already down, the alarm history that shows the latching alarms is when they were hooking up the lap top and powering up the panel. Is what they tell me why you see those alarms. lastly, i did ask for the data log but they insist the service log is all they can get and that there is no other data to extract from the panel. But Im still checking. Over all we may never know what really caused it but, the effort to find a reason was worth it. Thanks everyone for the help.
Although I do see a few configuration mistakes, IE , setup of evap flow is wrong as you are ice building and specific gravity is one and flow setpoints are incorrect, I don't think any of these is what caused your failure. It looks to be a system problem and has something to do with flows. You have numerous trips and you are starting that chiller every half an hour on average. This start stop ratio is causing something to happen with the motor winding sensors. They are out of range and could be shorting intermittently. Being 450 pounds short and causing excessive cycling is where you should be concerned, not the panel install. I would look at this as a site with poor or improper maintenance being done or not done at all and rebuild the chiller and get a competent technician involved. I think you are looking in the wrong direction.
Originally Posted by zw17 You are not looking for generic ideas, you are in a very grey area looking for specific troubleshooting help. What is your job title? Why have you come here looking for answers? Why have you not yet hired a contractor? You have made it very clear that you don't understand this machine, what exactly are you looking to gain here? You see, when I see someone asking "What should my set points be for this 500 ton chiller" I get very concerned as to who is asking and why they are asking. Maintance men need to keep their booger hooks off the buttons... If you catch my drift. Tehe he said Booger!
Originally Posted by dlove I thought this was a open forum, discussing ideas? You are not looking for generic ideas, you are in a very grey area looking for specific troubleshooting help. What is your job title? Why have you come here looking for answers? Why have you not yet hired a contractor? You have made it very clear that you don't understand this machine, what exactly are you looking to gain here? You see, when I see someone asking "What should my set points be for this 500 ton chiller" I get very concerned as to who is asking and why they are asking. Maintance men need to keep their booger hooks off the buttons... If you catch my drift.
Yes you have answered my questions and thanks for that. I thought this was a open forum, discussing ideas? I do plan to have a Trane rep work on the issues. I would be crazy not to. My goal was to gather ideas to help steer me in the right direction, and everyone"s advice helped. But don't think for a minute i would take all this to the bank and from all this I'm now a chiller tech.. we all have our limits in what we know. Every now and then we need advice.
Your original three questions have been answered, again and again. You are wasting time, and risking further equipment damage, by attempting to diagnose the problem(s) over the internet. You should get someone qualified on site to resolve this. It also does not help that you appear to answer questions selectively.
Originally Posted by deltap10 Cut out is 265F. Your diag. is not for high temp. but for loss of comm. hence the dashes for motor temp. readings. The UC800 can't see the winding temps. I don't agree this unit tripped on high motor temp. Get someone qualified to open the data log. Thanks deltap, I'm working on getting the data log
With all due respect to everyone in this thread... This is not a DIY forum and I see a lot of information being given that is most likely getting a tech tossed under a bus. I for one cringe at the thought of a customer that has been 'schooled' on something he has no idea about then second guessing me on a tough project. The original poster needs to apply for professional status if he wants to understand the ins and outs on a specific piece of machinery. This is obviously my opinion and opinions are like a$$holes. Take it as you see it.
Cut out is 265F. Your diag. is not for high temp. but for loss of comm. hence the dashes for motor temp. readings. The UC800 can't see the winding temps. I don't agree this unit tripped on high motor temp. Get someone qualified to open the data log.
I like what Nuclrchiller said in his first post, which i saw myself and had the same thought. First thing I see is the "motor winding temperature sensor" diagnostics. Under UC800 it shows that for "Motor Temperature Protection Type", "75 Ohm RTDs" was selected, but under "Motor Report" there is a blank reading for all 3 "Motor Winding Temp" readings. So the question is. If we don't show actual winding temps, What temp would the 75 Ohm RTDs Motor Temperature Protection cut out on, at 200degs 500degs? But the high temp eventually did cut it off, because we did receive a latched alarm. several times. But i also agree with Spinning wheel, i hope to find out what the pressures, and water temps were during the last few hours it was running. If may be pressures were all out of whack, the Freon may have not been able to flow correctly. I have been told the purge count was high so from that we had air in the system. It is possible like Triggerhappy said, a plugged office or something preventing flow.
Loss of comm with all three motor temp sensors points to a failed LLID. I had a burn out on a motor that sent high voltage back to the LLID on the sensor wire and fried the LLID. That diag. is labeled remote reset so maybe not so serious in Trane's view. What failed first the sensor or the motor?
The motor went bad because there was less than 1 psi of difference between the evap pressure and the condenser press. The motor was not being cooled by refrigerant liquid, and the controls did not see the motor heating up because of what I would assume to be an improperly installed panel. You need to investigate the motor sensors, and if they are wired into the panel correctly. Then in the future, add tower controls to regulate the water temperature so that there will be the correct amount of refrigerant flow to the motor..
Originally Posted by dlove Here what i have been told from the vendor who installed the new panel. The panel comes from the Trane factory designed and programmed for the particular chiller on which it is placed. So, all the programming was in place and was pre-configured. Does this mean the installer is not Trane Service? If so, was Trane at least involved in commissioning the panel after it was installed? Also, see my last post.
Originally Posted by triggerhappy On that I will have to disagree. I have installed quite a few Adaptiview upgrades and there is field programming to be done. I will agree that the panel comes for your particular application. Your motor cooling could be as simple as plugged orfice on motor cooler line. Yeah, I've never heard of that either. I'm not saying it is impossible to do it. It would at the very least involve some off site building of the entire control package and then programming it, and then ensuring all pre-bound, or pre-labled devices are installed in their correct locations. The possibility of error is so high I would not try it. Even if this was done, without a laptop (with Trane's software) used to start it and verify proper operation, it was not properly commissioned, which in my opinion means it was not properly installed. Of course, this my opinion which is based on what I've read here, which I still think is not all the story.
Originally Posted by dlove Here what i have been told from the vendor who installed the new panel. The panel comes from the Trane factory designed and programmed for the particular chiller on which it is placed. So, all the programming was in place and was pre-configured. On that I will have to disagree. I have installed quite a few Adaptiview upgrades and there is field programming to be done. I will agree that the panel comes for your particular application. Your motor cooling could be as simple as plugged orfice on motor cooler line.
Here what i have been told from the vendor who installed the new panel. The panel comes from the Trane factory designed and programmed for the particular chiller on which it is placed. So, all the programming was in place and was pre-configured.
How are the motor windings on this machine cooled? Via refrigerant? If so I'd be looking at the low charge perhaps contributing to the problem. Any record of discharge superheat taken? Surging is murder on a chiller comp and motor. What were the causes behind low chilled water flow?
Originally Posted by Nuclrchiller Agreed. Where is panel powered from? I would expect control power transformer in the starter, but have seen otherwise. That's the million dollar question, why did these burn up? not sure, trying to gather up what information i can. But you would think after the original one went, and the second one went there would have been more trouble shooting done. I hope to have answer soon I believe the original panel was a UCP1 CenTraVac Panel trying to get more info on old panel. When i say i think everything points to the new panel, what I'm saying is, if the new panel wasn't set up property this could be a contributing factor. As for flows, I understand what you saying. But from the alarm history and what I know about the loss of freon, water flow, and surging ect...and not having proper settings, all these combined, made for failure. Prior to the new panel being installed the unit sat for several weeks, my assumption is it got air bound. Some questions I have are, was the purge running correctly, should the service techs pulled a vacuum prior to start up? Not sure of the steps they took prior to start up. Working on getting those answers That's why I asked about the motor cooling. It would appear the chiller ran for a short time after reset. Depending on pressures, water temps and flows what would prevent the motor to get proper cooling for it to overheat? Way at the bottom it does show a motor temp alarm early on, then it doesn't appear again until the failure? I know there are many factors; I’m not looking for concrete answers. Just thoughts, and a few hypotheses. everyone is doing great!
Originally Posted by triggerhappy What do you mean by panels fried? It seems a bit odd that all these electrical devices are burning up. Agreed. Where is panel powered from? I would expect control power transformer in the starter, but have seen otherwise.
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