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I absolutely do understand the torment of making a decision on this one. I chose to be completely honest but at the same time honor the traditions so my boys would still have the holiday celebration like their friends.

What is most interesting is that at times my boys had doubts that I was telling them the truth because all of the other adults were telling them something different.

Today, if I tell my boys something that sounds off kilter, they will simply ask me if I am telling the truth. They all know that once that is said, I will immediately admit if I am pulling their legs.

Originally posted by RoBoTeq


Let's face it folks; we lie to kids for our own personal gain and enjoyment. It amuses us that we have so much control over a child that we can get them to believe something simply on the promise of gifts. We trick children into "being good" because "Santa is watching", the same way we trick them to go to sleep or the monster under the bed will get them. It all boils down to manipulative power over others. And that trait is with them when they grow up.

UH-OH....you don't lie about Santa, but you tell them there are monsters under their bed. Which is scarier????

Just kidding....

I'm torn right now, because my husband and I are always telling our 7 year old daughter it is not right to lie, yet we have Santa, the toothfairy and all.....

She confronted me the other day and said a few boys had told her there was no such thing, and proceeded to read me the riot act that if there was no Santa I was lying and that is not right....but seeing the look on her face when she gets that one piece of mail (that my freinds sends yearly) from Santa Claus is priceless. This year was the best because she was so proud she read the whole thing herself with no help from us.

I'm also sad because I know this is probably the last year, but won't have to worry about the guilt anymore.


oroy54. I love the poop on the roof idea. LMAO.

Have a safe X-mas all.

Originally posted by hvac r us 2
Maybe Robo has a Santa phobia?

That's not possible. The therapy from having been gang raped by Santa and an entourage of elves when I was 6 has prevented any long term issues.

Maybe Robo has a Santa phobia? You know like coulrophobia (fear of clowns) it’s the only thing that makes sense to me listening to his Santa conspiracy.

What would you call that? Jollymanophobia?

I think the Easter Bunny is much more intimidating, he always looked a little demented to me.

Originally posted by tinner73
you and me don't agree on anything. i don't care what you say, Santa is still coming. Merry Christmas none the less. you jerk.

Now that's commitment to the spirit of the holidays! Thanks tinner, I did enjoy reading this

For the rest; I cannot say you are wrong nor can I say I am right. I have admitted that I do lie when I feel it is needed.

I did do the Santa stories with my boys growing up, I just made it clear that Santa was not an actual person.

By the way, Santa is only a jolly old elf one day of the year. The rest of the year he is an elf slave driving bully!

LIke I said before the adult world simply would not function if we did not lie case in point (the movie liar liar with Jim Carey) (Canadian too!)

As it stands I my self know of no one whom has been tramurtised by being told lies about the big three santa the tooth fairy and the easter bunny. Nor have I seen any talk shows adress this topic at all

having said this I can see Robos point although I would suggest that Robo has difficulty seeing the greys of life thus its black and white for him.

Merry Christmas everyone and for the kids whom are willing to believe http://www.noradsanta.org/

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Sure; Subtle teachings of wrong breed sly wrong doers.

I agree with Robosrcouge,or rather I see his point anyway.

Remember Robo,that everthing has a purpose.Lying has a purpose. What if you get captured by Iraq?Will you tell them how to access the securenet/goodman/pdf/thingyouhave?

So why not tell little kids that santa IS make-believe to begin with? This will teach a more valuable life lesson.



And if you want ME to keep your password/thing while your away,then I will...

HAPPY HOLIDAY.

you and me don't agree on anything. i don't care what you say, Santa is still coming. Merry Christmas none the less. you jerk.

I understand your sentiments. At first blush it seems totally innocent and non-harmful to deceive children about things like Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. But; where do children who grow up thinking that lying and deceiving are things that are alright to do, get those ideas?

I know not everyone reads or tries to follow what is stated in the Bible, but since this is supposed to be the season of celebration for the birth of Jesus the Christ I feel it is appropriate to quote what is attributed to Him about lying;

NIV John 8:44 - You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

We do well at what we practice. There are other ways to inject the spirit of Santa into our lives than lying.

Let's face it folks; we lie to kids for our own personal gain and enjoyment. It amuses us that we have so much control over a child that we can get them to believe something simply on the promise of gifts. We trick children into "being good" because "Santa is watching", the same way we trick them to go to sleep or the monster under the bed will get them. It all boils down to manipulative power over others. And that trait is with them when they grow up.

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Sure; remember the joyous looks on their little deceived faces while they are still being deceived. Don't dare think of the devastated looks of dismay, hurt, embarrassment and distrust on their faces when they realize they have been duped by the very people they trust.

Subtle teachings of wrong breed sly wrong doers.

come on.....it's Santa Claus. it's not like you told them they had different parents or something IMPORTANT. all the bullshit wrong doings that people do in their lives. AND LIE ABOUT. the drinking, drugs, infidelity, stupid choices, divorce, etc. have you done any of these?? have you lied about these? (not you personally Robo) these are the deceitful lies you speak of....not Santa. He's still good.

This time of year would mean much more to me if it was not so depressing and lonely. But then again, What time of year ISN'T depressing and loely for me............

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Don't dare think of the devastated looks of dismay, hurt, embarrassment and distrust on their faces when they realize they have been duped by the very people they trust.

Your parents must have broke it to you the wrong way.

Robo: Mommy, Daddy is Santa coming this year.

Dad: Shut up you brat he's fake anyway. You aint getting shit no more.

Here's how we do it. My kids each get one present and the family as a whole gets a present wrapped in Santa wrapping paper. The rest of the loot they know comes from us. I won't spend anytime with my therapist working through my guilt for lying and I don't think my kids will bankrupt me with their psychiatric expenses either. They grow up faster now than even a few years ago. Let them have a few fantastic fantasies.

Sure; remember the joyous looks on their little deceived faces while they are still being deceived. Don't dare think of the devastated looks of dismay, hurt, embarrassment and distrust on their faces when they realize they have been duped by the very people they trust.

Subtle teachings of wrong breed sly wrong doers.

isn't Christmas supposed to be about the kiddies. This Santa fib matters how?? These kids have the rest of their lives to be in the "rat race of life". the rest of adult life of being underpaid, overworked, unappreciated, under the gun, mortgages, car loan etc. that's a shame they missed a great part of childhood because it's A LIE!!!! it's a lie ...BIG DEAL. let the kids have fun. ooh to be 7 yrs. old again

great post Penguin. Nothing wrong with kids having imagination and something they want to believe in.

Originally posted by The Penguin
For me its ok that I pretend that Santa and the tooth fairy, and the easter bunny exists for my kids they don't need to grow up too fast, its fast enough as it is. I am going to enjoy their innocence for as long as it is good for them and I will feel good about it too!

I will agree with this. When I look back on my childhood my brothers and sister would sit up and try to watch for santa and it is great memories. My son who is now 11 don't believe anymore and he still has fun with the santa thing with his little sister who is now starting to question. If you were scarred for life because your parents lied to you about santa, there is probably more going on than that.

We as parents first encourage our Children to be strong and not shy when they meet people as babies/toddlers, even if its a person they have never met before say an uncle or aunt or granparent etc. they we start "street proofing our children" by telling them to be wary of people they don't know. we also tell stories and read books to our children about fictishious characters, my daughter currently is obsessed with barbies, polly pockets, cinderella, and the little mermaid. I think she believes they exist or existed at one point.
the adult world is full of lies it wouldn't function with out them. eg are you going to tell your boss he's an arseh###? even if you think so you wont cause you need your job right? are you going to tell your girlfriend/wife she really does look fat in that dress? no I dont think so well I wouldn't anyway.
Are you going to tell your customer he's a moron for not checking to see if his breaker or disconnect switch is off before calling you for a service call? no?

as adults we generally have enough discression as to know then a lie is the right thing to say in a situation. we need to teach our children this if they are to be sucessfull in adult life. for example I chose not to tell the airport security guard at lax that they were totally out of control and are complete stupid pricks, I chose to say they were doing a great job even though my zipper on my pants set off the alarms and my wife had a pocket full of coins and hot wheels cars did not.

I think its my duty to teach my children the difference between what and when its appropiate to tell a lie
How do we really know theres' only one god any way? does god exist?
this is what I like being any to have a different view than some one else and that either of us could be right or wrong and yet we can still get along.

For me its ok that I pretend that Santa and the tooth fairy, and the easter bunny exists for my kids they don't need to grow up too fast, its fast enough as it is. I am going to enjoy their innocence for as long as it is good for them and I will feel good about it too!

oroy54, sometimes I think of myself as an intelligent person and sometimes I think that intellect is a complete waste of my existance. I am complex enough to know right from wrong and yet choose badly at times.

I lie. Anyone who says they don't is a liar. I find lying to be one of the most degrading thing I can do, so I reserve lying for keeping me out of trouble, like;
officer: Mr Boyd, I clocked you doing 95 in a 30 mile zone while weaving dramatically; have you been drinking.
me:uhhhh, no.
officer:And why do you have a goat with a dress on it in the back of your van?
me:uhhhh, it belongs to a friend of mine named Dice.

See how that works? If I really need to lie to stay out of trouble, then of course I will do it. But if we really think about it, lying is taught to us. Lying is not a natural part of our behaviour, we are taught to lie.

Telling fabricated stories to your children seems like a harmless little "white" lie. I don't think the color of a lie changes the fact that it is still a lie.

My children grew up knowing that Santa Claus was a fabricated figure to show what we are like when Christmas time comes around. I told the usual Christmas stories only making certain it was known that it was in the spirit of the make believe Santa that people once a year felt like showing their appreciation and love for one another by giving each other presents.

I also made certain that since Jesus was injected into this most pagan holiday by the Romans that Jesus at least got some air time. I always tried to keep bible stories in perspective so my children did not feel the way Spotts did toward a most difficult to explain story such as the Jonah and the Whale story.

The fact is that Christmas is allegedly a Christian holiday but because of it's popularity and watered down Christian atitude it is celebrated by many who are not Christian. What is the need for a fat guy that dresses funny being accepted for breaking and entering our homes only because he is "giving" us something rather than "taking" something?

Just as Spotts pointed out, we are giving our children a choice between God, who is all too often portrayed as an angry, punishing God or some fat guy who we accept doing wrong things for the sake of our own greed.

Ask yourselves; Do I want my child to be lied to?
Do I want my child to learn that lying is ok under certain circumstances?
Do I want my child to do as I do?

Is telling my child that some fat dude in the mall is Santa and that this "Santa" will bring them toys if they are "good", a lie?

I understand Norm, but I have known only happiness and family get togethers with this season...except funerals. We were all children in the safety of our parents and trusted them. I have a hard time with a guy that I work with that won't even let his grandchildren watch "Frosty the Snowman" and get no presents from the grandparents. I still know what your talking about, but in my life there is alot more to worry about right now. I think that my rewards in heaven might be less, but that was my decision right or wrong. Roy