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I still see a place for small pou for handwash sinks. But i agree, especially with demand or tou pricing that will become more common or even standard.

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Originally Posted by 54regcab

Defeats the purpose IMHO. Deactivating the heat pump mode when incoming water temps are the coldest. Anybody who has a GAS water heater can attest to how little energy is used to heat water in the summer. $5/mo in gas use with warmer summer water temps?

With an average sized basement it seldom gets too cold for the heat pump to operate.

Originally Posted by 54regcab

IMHO tankless electric water heaters are impractical due to he heavy electrical load, some use (3) 60A breakers. Just don't let the HVAC heat strips turn on at the same time, or you will overload a standard 200A electrical panel in a hurry.

I think most people that have on demand electric tankless heaters will be scrapping them in the next few years.

Originally Posted by 54regcab

IMHO tankless electric water heaters are impractical due to he heavy electrical load, some use (3) 60A breakers. Just don't let the HVAC heat strips turn on at the same time, or you will overload a standard 200A electrical panel in a hurry.

I'm going to laugh at all those people that bought electric tankless heaters when the utilities bring demand metering to residential customers. With all the "smart meters" going in, it only takes a click of the mouse to activate peak demand based billing. I bet it will be the norm in 10 years.

Originally Posted by Joehvac25

So you already have hot water and are going to re heat it? Lol jk

I was thinking the same thing. Its just a "water heater."

Originally Posted by beenthere

They don't run when the area/ambient is too cold. So they don't need to defrost.

Defeats the purpose IMHO. Deactivating the heat pump mode when incoming water temps are the coldest. Anybody who has a GAS water heater can attest to how little energy is used to heat water in the summer. $5/mo in gas use with warmer summer water temps?

IMHO tankless electric water heaters are impractical due to he heavy electrical load, some use (3) 60A breakers. Just don't let the HVAC heat strips turn on at the same time, or you will overload a standard 200A electrical panel in a hurry.

Originally Posted by beenthere

I have a hot water heater. Good thing too, since it would really bite taking a shower if it waited for the water to get cold to heat it up.

Lol that makes sense actually because I guess it only heats cold water initially.

Originally Posted by barriefurnacerepair

I did a "hot water heater" job for someone.....they kept using the same terminology.....I tried not to twitch every time I heard it.

I have a hot water heater. Good thing too, since it would really bite taking a shower if it waited for the water to get cold to heat it up.

Originally Posted by craig1

Without a reversing valve the evap would probably freeze up below 50

They don't run when the area/ambient is too cold. So they don't need to defrost.

Originally Posted by HighlandThunder

Finally, the energy savings. Yes, we have lower electricity usage as a result of using this unit in place of the standard electric unit. But it is not shockingly better. I have not actually tried to measure the accurate savings, which would be a bit difficult as my family grew by one right before installation, but if I had it to do over again I would not drop over $1500 on the unit. If the price is below $1000, I would do it.

Neat little trick that helps add a little energy recovery to the heater; if your clothes dryer is in the same space, install a method of dumping the discharge (only if it is electric) in the basement after it has ran for about 10-15 minutes (to allow for the large amount of dampness to be discharged outside first). This requires manual intervention, so it is annoying to try and implement. Anyone with ideas on how to make this automated, please chime in!

BAd idea IMO> Unless you have very, very fine mesh screen on the discharge, all that lint will make a dusty mess of your basement. Lint traps don't catch the fine stuff. Even worse the fabric softner chemicals I believe can be hard on coils, if anything possibly coat them and reduce efficiency and capacity.


I alsways wondered if you could cost effectively core drill through a basement foundation and install just enough ground loop capacity for 2-3k BTU and use a larger tank. I have a tankless, but on average, I'm only using 1500-2000 BTU's to make hot water including a recirculation loop. That what desuperheaters put on out geothermal systems. Just a nice steady 2-5k BTU depending on compressor load.

I haven't done a hybrid water heater. I know they're available in my area. Apparently, the advantage of a hybrid is getting the efficiency of a tankless water heater without the "sandwich" and fluctuations inherent with such systems. A mixing valve doesn't always cut it which is why the mix is done in a reservoir on the tank itself. It's a tankless water heater with a gargantuan mixing reservoir - basically, a tankless water heater that isn't completely tankless, hence the designation of hybrid. That's my simplistic look at it.

There is still a large footprint for such a unit and at double the price, not convinced of the advantage. High demand (150+ Gallons first hour) and high efficiency is the market. The control is flow and/or temperature from what I've read. 2" S636 can be used as well.....200 lbs. Hardness is a big factor too.

Originally Posted by Joehvac25

I meant it as a joke "Hot water heater" implies you are heating water that's already hot. Guess it was a stupid joke lol

I did a "hot water heater" job for someone.....they kept using the same terminology.....I tried not to twitch every time I heard it.

Originally Posted by pacnw

I got it.

It is a pet peeve of mine, too. Our dispatcher and most office personnel say the same thing- hot water heater. A few times I have replied back as you did, over the 2 way, and got dead silence back. They do not get it either.

Ha ha atleast I know there's one more smart ass like me out there.

Just like the ice is frozen. ha ha

Originally Posted by Joehvac25

I meant it as a joke "Hot water heater" implies you are heating water that's already hot. Guess it was a stupid joke lol

I got it.

It is a pet peeve of mine, too. Our dispatcher and most office personnel say the same thing- hot water heater. A few times I have replied back as you did, over the 2 way, and got dead silence back. They do not get it either.

My personal experience

I have one that has been installed in my around 800 sq ft unfinished basement for the past two years. It is the GE, but I have no idea as to whether or not it is made in the US. The basement is cinder block walls and concrete floor with a few block vents around. I used to use a stand alone dehumidifier to knock out the musty smell, but since installing this water heater there has been no need. I have it in a water catch pan in case it ever leaks and the same 3/4" PVC line that connects to that also catches the condensate that drains from the heat pump unit on the top. I let it run into a floor drain but it can just as easily be expelled via a condensate pump.

I chose the GE over the Ruud because the GE uses 134A refrigerant and the Ruud uses 410-A. Talk about some major pressure differences. Also the GE was a bit shorter and with my fairly low ceiling, it was going to be close with the Ruud.

There are several operational modes. Hybrid only, which will never energize the element backup. E-Home, which tries to heat mostly with the heat pump but will use the elements when demand gets higher. High demand, will more liberally use the element backup. And stop cold air (electric element only mode). I generally use E-Home during the summer months and high demand during the winter, and yes it stays fairly cold down there in the winter, but it is tolerable with heavy clothing.

Installation was just a bit more difficult than a standard water heater, but be aware that this thing is heavy. I man handled it down the stairs and into place but I am a fairly big guy. Expect to need the assistance of another able bodied person to set this unit. Also, it needs to be transported like a refrigerator, you know, upright, so be sure to strap it good or you'll almost give yourself an ulcer like I did bringing it home going 5 mph around every curve.

Finally, the energy savings. Yes, we have lower electricity usage as a result of using this unit in place of the standard electric unit. But it is not shockingly better. I have not actually tried to measure the accurate savings, which would be a bit difficult as my family grew by one right before installation, but if I had it to do over again I would not drop over $1500 on the unit. If the price is below $1000, I would do it.

Neat little trick that helps add a little energy recovery to the heater; if your clothes dryer is in the same space, install a method of dumping the discharge (only if it is electric) in the basement after it has ran for about 10-15 minutes (to allow for the large amount of dampness to be discharged outside first). This requires manual intervention, so it is annoying to try and implement. Anyone with ideas on how to make this automated, please chime in!

Yes it certainly could. But If it was me Id push the limits! Lol

Originally Posted by SBKold

. They also I believe shut off heat pump portion when inlet air gets below 50. So like loonie hinted towards if your basement is cold the majority of the year than it may run off elements more than you desire.

However I'm sure you could find a way to warm the inlet sensor to keep it running.

Without a reversing valve the evap would probably freeze up below 50

Last time I checked they have 10yr parts only 10yr sealed sys labor+parts

There is no RV you are correct. I have worked on several of the old design GE units that had issues with their tube and fin evap coil leaking. Other than that the control boards seem pretty reliable

. They also I believe shut off heat pump portion when inlet air gets below 50. So like loonie hinted towards if your basement is cold the majority of the year than it may run off elements more than you desire.

However I'm sure you could find a way to warm the inlet sensor to keep it running.

If you buy a GE, make sure you get the new American made model, not the old Chinese one

That would be one ccccold basement!