Post a reply to the thread: HVAC/R super seal. My 1st experience
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Tried it exactly once. Never again!
I would love to get a small sample of the oil for analysis. Only need about an ounce. Continually trying to keep the R&D on this going.
I know this is an old thread but somehow had a PM about it... if you actually read the description of how the sealer works you would have known to remove any filter driers. It activates with moisture and driers do what?? The stuff works fine when used correctly on very small leaks. At least the NuCalgon Easy seal does. If you can't take the time to remove the driers and boil out the moisture within the oil then don't use it.
my dad did that to moms tahoe once, i had to pull this rubber stuff, reminded me of 100% silicone sealant that dries up in the caulking tube nozzle when you dont use it for a while, anyway had to pull this stuff out of the valve stem on a 134a, you know how its got the big valve cap, and quick fitting? obviously, it was the valve stem that was leaking, i pulled the cap off, i saw this big gob of very strong pure rubber substance, got a pick, picked it out, but like i say, it was SUPER STRONG, a small 1/16-1/8 inch column of this stiff, literally could not be torn apart.
I had a Trane 2 stage RTU and the system had black gunk in it. They had replaced compressor after compressor in house till they called a contractor. The inside V coil had never been cleaned. They had never used any sealer on the unit.
Sealants. Here is what I have found in my limited experience. Sealants are used, obviously where there has been high super heat and loss of capacity. Typically this also means that the compressor has experienced high discharge temps. High discharge temps create carbon deposits in the sump oil, sealers appear to me to attract these carbon particles. If this is in a txv system, there will be some service required on the txv in due time. My experience maybe not every-bodies.
Sealants Originally Posted by penderway I must be doing something different cause when I apply super-seal in the spring or summer to a system that I've verified has formicary corrosion in the indoor coil and that I've absolutely removed all moisture from inside....I don't have the troubles experienced in this thread. I'm not a salesman and I'm no longer interested in debating whether this stuff is crap. I know that for me it works as intended and is another tool in my bag. We have done a lot of testing on sealants, they are all about the same formulation or a derivation of the original patent awarded in 1989 to a Mr. Joseph J. Packo U.S. patent number 4,237,172 We have found that if the system is moisture free then a leak in the vapor side as large as 5.8 pounds per year can be sealed, BUT if the leak is in the vapor side then a leak as small as 0.1 pound per year may not seal completely. Since you don't know where the leak is located, that is why sometimes it works very well other times not at all. It is also critically important to make certain the system is dry. Our tests have also shown that if the moisture content in the system is under 100 PPM water, the leak sealant will not adversely affect system life. We never tested higher moisture levels so higher moisture levels may or may not be safe. The entire test report can be downloaded at https://www.qwik.com/education-and-t...-leak-sealants Hope this helps
Sealants
Here at this state government facility, there is a large refrigeration rack system that serves all of the refrigeration within the main kitchen. As a contractor, I never used the Super Seal 5+ tons product and was always successful in locating & repairing coil leaks. But the remote condenser coil has three (3) circuits in which were leaking with only one circuit still leaking. While the Cliplight product does indeed stop the loss of refrigerant, the side effect is that it loves to plug up TXV screens and headmaster valve screens. A very fine black like looking substance literally plugs up the TXV screen (it's the removable type of screen) to where I use a tubing brush to clean it. But a headmaster valve was replaced recently and within 24 hours of the changeout, the liquid inlet screen was plugged solid. The installed headmaster valve was removed and out of the tubing came large solid chunks of the black looking debris with a smell to it unlike anything I've ever smelled before. We're in the process of connecting two new remote CU's to the existing W/I freezer systems that have been served by the rack circuits. Once we have the new emergency CU's online, not only will the remote condenser coil package be replaced, but we plan on doing an extensive tubing line flush that will include the receiver tank and we'll likely replace the old compressors so after the new remote condenser package unit is in place, hopefully the leaking circuits are free & clean of the Cliplight product. My recommendation to anyone is if there is no other way in which to repair a coil leak be it an evaporator or condenser coil, then go ahead and use the Cliplight product. But be prepared by having a large stock of filter-driers on hand and hopefully the TXV screen can be removed without having the replace the entire TXV. As for the headmaster valve screen plugging up, I took the screen out and opted to not re-insert it. The amount of black looking debris that came out of the copper tubing at the headmaster's inlet measures about a tablespoon of debris with several large chunks that resemble burnt wood. Our systems here at the state facility use R-404a refrigerant which of course requires POE oil. Presently, we're changing out the R-404a and replacing it with R-507 refrigerant. We are also installing new evaporator coils (both medium & low temp w/ EC motors) and thus, the nozzle inside of the distributor is sized for R-507. This building contains 13 walk-ins three of which are freezers. A lot of long tubing runs mandate all evap coils use balanced port TXV's. The two W/I freezers that currently have the Cliplight product in them are at one end of the building and are approximately 200+ feet from the outside refrigeration rack. Each W/I freezer refrigerant charge is about 90-100 lbs. of R-507. When the new low evap coils are installed, the TXV superheat will be set between 2-4 F. which should get the return gas at the compressor pretty close to what Copeland likes to see!
Originally Posted by jdblack I'm done with it. I will not recommend it and will highly recommend staying away from it. I went back to the supply house to put in my formal complaint and one of the guys in there said he's used it a few times and he's lost two compressors from systems that have had this put in within a few weeks. Let this be warning to all, that if you decide to use this, at a minimum you need to install a new drier. This stuff reacts with Oxygen. What's in a drier, moisture? What's mositure, H2OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhh no... Seriously? So I guess when you have a paper or wood fire, you shouldn't try to put it out with water, because water is H2O... I only used SuperSeal once, on a personal repair. I had a nice old Perlick kegerator with an R12 system. Thing was beautiful, but had a very slow leak. Could never find it, so just gave it a shot of 12 about once a year. Then, of course I was running out of 12, so I tried the stuff. That was about 5 years ago, still running. At work almost all my systems are box cars, 40 to 75 tons, no using it on those.
This should be a reply to the question whether POE oil can "suck in" moisture with 5 Lbs positive pressure There is negative pressure measured in hg (vacuum). There is positive pressure. How does POE oil "suck in" moisture when you have 5 lbs positive pressure ? This doesn't take into account the possibility of leaking systems that go into vacuum and then go positive. For example: a leaking refrigerator that under certain conditions can go positive or negative. Under that specific condition, (less than O hg) you would be sucking in air and now you have moisture within the system.
Super Seal is by Cliplight, EZ seal is by Calgon. I think Calgon got into the game after ClipLights patent expired. Not 100% sure though. They seem to be the same product.
So what is the difference between super seal and EZ seal? My company uses EZ seal when applicable but it scares the S@#$ out of me so I wont use it. Asked the boss man if he thinks it works and the jury is still out on that one i guess but no failures yet.
Originally Posted by penderway I must be doing something different cause when I apply super-seal in the spring or summer to a system that I've verified has formicary corrosion in the indoor coil and that I've absolutely removed all moisture from inside....I don't have the troubles experienced in this thread. I'm not a salesman and I'm no longer interested in debating whether this stuff is crap. I know that for me it works as intended and is another tool in my bag. X2
I must be doing something different cause when I apply super-seal in the spring or summer to a system that I've verified has formicary corrosion in the indoor coil and that I've absolutely removed all moisture from inside....I don't have the troubles experienced in this thread. I'm not a salesman and I'm no longer interested in debating whether this stuff is crap. I know that for me it works as intended and is another tool in my bag.
Originally Posted by Rcb2875 You are supposed to dump it into a charged or semi charged system running, not from a vacuum. Just sayin. Been awhile pretty sure we followed instructions on the stuff. Could be mixed up on order, but I know at some point in the am it received a vac, 22, ezseal, and lots of water. Recently the other circuit on unit just had the antique retrofitted 06D bite the dust, so it got a retro fit scroll lol.
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Just curious, but did you charge for the drier since you put something in the system that came from the supply house? If a product from the company is what caused the issue, does the client have to pay?
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Originally Posted by Freightshaker Used ez-seal once in a pinch on a 15t battle worn Borg Warner. Another tech on call told them it had an evap leak. Next day they wanted it fixed at all cost. Sooo pulled a best it could vac loaded the leaking circuit with ez-seal and 22 went back to checking other units at facility. Couple hours later went and looked, sight glass showing moisture. Shut it off looked for leak... Whoops it was underwater bottom of evap. Deleted the bottom passes, pull , purge, pull, purge,x10 heat comp and drier with torch. Finally got good numbers charged and fired up. Every time I see ez-seal or the likes it takes me back to the one time I used it and I get a good laugh. You are supposed to dump it into a charged or semi charged system running, not from a vacuum. Just sayin.
Should have the user name "garythesnakeoilsalesman."
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