Post a reply to the thread: built-in obsolescence
You may choose an icon for your message from this list
Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Will turn www.example.com into [URL]http://www.example.com[/URL].
I think gov interference affects quality as well. the reason many chemicals were used was because they worked. I've rarely seen lead paint mildew, but paint over it w/latex and in 6 mos it can mold/mildew. oil base paint today doesn't seen to protect wood so well, fewer of the things that are limited now by regs. plastics don't have some of what they used to, or have to use recycled stuff that has degraded. can't have lead in brass. low sulfor fuels don't lubricate pumps as well as older oil, ethaol gas eats up small engines. bio fuels have shorter shelf life. Hydraulic hoses are rough texture now since old smooth ones had lead in the manuf process, but I don't think that has hurt quality, so its a good thing there. How long would a mercury switch last vs metal contact? chlordane termite treatment vs newer stuff? more tech added to machines to make more efficient, but at cost of lifespan. would point out that even w/shorter life, sometimes you can come out again on energy eff.
Did every one forget the annual replacing of a thermocouple or the rust in the burner chamber? Or replacing tubes in a tv or Points, plugs and distributure cap in your car? More durable now. I get a laugh at Trane's attempt to force the issue on replacement though. Evapcoil priced at $1000, but cased coil complete is only $500. Same coil, just remove the coil from the cabinet and now you have a cabinet worth $500 to sell on ebay.
Originally Posted by BaldLoonie The only trouble with the comparison on cars is: they have gone way up in price. I'd guess a "family car" today is 10K more than 20 years ago. Is a 95% furnace lots more than a 92% furnace in 1992? No, probably LESS! And we wonder why they breakdown, are full of 3rd world country components or in the case of some products, made in Mexico altogether. People don't mind spending the big bucks on new cars but when you tell a guy with a 3 series in his garage that his 30 year old 60% furnace ought to be replaced, he screams like a stuck pig. Furnaces don't look as good as granite countertops and "hardwood" flooring. Or a 3 series BMW.... People are idiots.
Bells break and so do whistles.
The only trouble with the comparison on cars is: they have gone way up in price. I'd guess a "family car" today is 10K more than 20 years ago. Is a 95% furnace lots more than a 92% furnace in 1992? No, probably LESS! And we wonder why they breakdown, are full of 3rd world country components or in the case of some products, made in Mexico altogether. People don't mind spending the big bucks on new cars but when you tell a guy with a 3 series in his garage that his 30 year old 60% furnace ought to be replaced, he screams like a stuck pig.
Originally Posted by air1 I think cars are much better today than 30 years ago. Cars will last for a couple hundred thousand miles. Cars built in the 70's were lucky to last one hundred thousand. Difference is cars were much simpler back then and could be rebuilt. Todays cars are disposable because cost to repair is more than the value of the car. Toyota became the biggest auto manufacture in the world because of the reliability of their vehicles. So if manufactures make a poor quality product they will get a bad reputation and people will buy the products with a reputation for reliability. The problem is when all manufactures adopt the same business model and they all make poor quality products. GE used to make the best compressor ever. It was the orange compressor that looked like a H bomb. Trane bought the patent and tooling and used them in their equipment for a while. But I guess they stopped using them because the marketing behind the scroll and lower cost, made it more profitable to use the scroll instead. I don't care what the marketing says, the older compressors were better. Maybe a little less efficient, but cost of ownership would be less since it would last longer. Seems many throw quality out for efficiency. "this gizmo will save you thousands in efficiency" what they fail to mention is it's payoff would take ten years and it has to be in perfect conditions. In real world applications it's a miserable failure.
I think cars are much better today than 30 years ago. Cars will last for a couple hundred thousand miles. Cars built in the 70's were lucky to last one hundred thousand. Difference is cars were much simpler back then and could be rebuilt. Todays cars are disposable because cost to repair is more than the value of the car. Toyota became the biggest auto manufacture in the world because of the reliability of their vehicles. So if manufactures make a poor quality product they will get a bad reputation and people will buy the products with a reputation for reliability. The problem is when all manufactures adopt the same business model and they all make poor quality products. GE used to make the best compressor ever. It was the orange compressor that looked like a H bomb. Trane bought the patent and tooling and used them in their equipment for a while. But I guess they stopped using them because the marketing behind the scroll and lower cost, made it more profitable to use the scroll instead. I don't care what the marketing says, the older compressors were better. Maybe a little less efficient, but cost of ownership would be less since it would last longer.
Originally Posted by benatwhodotnet I've got a mechanic friend who swears that GM has got plastic that will start failing (guaranteed failing) at 6 months past the warranty. He says it is not just the painted bumpers, but the door handles, armrest pulls, seat adjusters, and all the black plastic in the engine compartment... tho that stuff will likely just break when you apply a wrench or try to unlock the wire connectors. I hate automotive connections. Seems like no two are alike and each one is a secret puzzle to unlock. Then after a couple of times they are used they break and wind up with a zip tie.
Replacement market huge on auto parts.
I've got a mechanic friend who swears that GM has got plastic that will start failing (guaranteed failing) at 6 months past the warranty. He says it is not just the painted bumpers, but the door handles, armrest pulls, seat adjusters, and all the black plastic in the engine compartment... tho that stuff will likely just break when you apply a wrench or try to unlock the wire connectors.
Originally Posted by syndicated No you can't. It'll be too heavy too pass obama's fuel efficiency standards. Our economy works entirely based upon a quick turnover of goods. This is compounded by technology advancing so quickly that "new" stuff cannot be made to be foreward-compatible with the stuff coming out in a couple years. Remember why Maytag went out of business and was bought by whirlpool? Their stuff was TOO good. It never broke and Maytag couldn't sell enough product. Do you know how many old washer/dryers I see from the 70s and 80s on res calls? It's astounding! Why make a relay that can switch 100,000 times when you can make one that'll go after 50,000 for half the cost, so you can sell 2 of them or more? Totally agreed.
Originally Posted by toocoolforschool You can make a car undestructable with todays' technology but it will cost millions because the company will go out of business. What good is a product if you don't have a company to back it? No you can't. It'll be too heavy too pass obama's fuel efficiency standards. Our economy works entirely based upon a quick turnover of goods. This is compounded by technology advancing so quickly that "new" stuff cannot be made to be foreward-compatible with the stuff coming out in a couple years. Remember why Maytag went out of business and was bought by whirlpool? Their stuff was TOO good. It never broke and Maytag couldn't sell enough product. Do you know how many old washer/dryers I see from the 70s and 80s on res calls? It's astounding! Why make a relay that can switch 100,000 times when you can make one that'll go after 50,000 for half the cost, so you can sell 2 of them or more?
You can make a car undestructable with todays' technology but it will cost millions because the company will go out of business. What good is a product if you don't have a company to back it?
My Dad was an executive at Chrysler and worked there 47 years before he retired. He was in charge of vehicle safety systems/quality and productivity....he had the authority to shut down entire plants. He would go to scheduled meetings with Ford and GM regarding this very topic. All 3 companies collaborate and know how long parts will last, even down to the nuts and bolts. They produce products in a accordance to each other and agree upon specific tolerances with as you mentioned...planned obsolescence. It boils down to Capitalism and the all (once) mighty dollar. The days of pride in craftsmanship are gone as well as loyalty and security....all that matters is money, even at the cost of human life. Dad had a funny slogan he liked to say..."We have upped our standards, now up yours". He retired when Lee Iacocca left.
Personally I'd say it is cheap consumers that pushed manufacturing to China. We shop til we find the cheapest TV. How did it become the cheapest? China. Our homeowners push us for the lowest price, we push our suppliers, they push the factory, the factory makes its products in Mexico, buys compressors from Korea, coils from China, or in the case of Ameristar or Heat Controller, the whole outdoor unit from China. Until Americans are willing to pay fellow American workers for a better product, this will happen.
Originally Posted by kingkaiko2002 Hi all, I was wondering what you guys think about built-in obsolescence in hvac? I ran so many calls that right after the warranty expired, things break. Not just HVAC, but everything else. My microwave broke about 6 months after warranty expired. My car has problem right after the three years. My hard drive (computer) died 4 months after warranty. My TV is showing problems after the warranty. Is this true or is it my bad luck? It is true but it is the Genie that greedy Wall Street let out of the bottle by pushing our manufacturing might to China.
Manufacturers pay someone a lot of money to figure out how long their stuff will last. You don't think they just pick a number at random and say Thats how long the warrenty should be. So no its not just your bad luck, we live in a throw away society, get the cheapest thing you can and then just replace it every few years. Its easier then maintaining something.
built-in obsolescence Hi all, I was wondering what you guys think about built-in obsolescence in hvac? I ran so many calls that right after the warranty expired, things break. Not just HVAC, but everything else. My microwave broke about 6 months after warranty expired. My car has problem right after the three years. My hard drive (computer) died 4 months after warranty. My TV is showing problems after the warranty. Is this true or is it my bad luck?
built-in obsolescence
Forum Rules