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Here it is. The Agreements have the wording; Journeyman, Service Journeyman, Mechanical Equipment Service Journeyman, and MESJ all when mentioning the same thing - an MESJ. The Agreement is a legal document, it shouldn't be that way. As CFESA stated, a "Mechanical Equipment Serviceman" and a "Mechanical Equipment Service Journeyman" are 2 different things.

Originally Posted by MechTech2013

The point that CFESA and I are making is "DVJ MESJ" and the Local "BTJ Service Journeyman" (commonly referred to as Refrigeration Pipefitter) are equal in pay, as per the Agreement. So how is BTJ Service Journeyman an upgrade?

There is nothing in the national agreement equating the pay any of the non-BTJ denominations to BTJ. I want to be classified under the same denomination as the top earners in my local, in my particular situation the top paid mechanics are BTJ and thats what my union card has on it.

The point that CFESA and I are making is "DVJ MESJ" and the Local "BTJ Service Journeyman" (commonly referred to as Refrigeration Pipefitter) are equal in pay, as per the Agreement. So how is BTJ Service Journeyman an upgrade?

Originally Posted by MechTech2013

I think this is where the confusion began.

I think the "law" is open for interpretation, the key point is the question; is your package higher or the same as the highest paid union brothers in your local? if the answer is yes then they can name you anything MES, MESJ or Sue if they wish but if your classification means less money, then maybe is time for an upgrade but only if you think you are worth it.

Originally Posted by valdelocc

In my local most service guys are BTJ, the MES guys are typically former scabs on probation or filter changers, they make somewhere between 60 to 80% of BTJ pay and a lot less fringes.

I think this is where the confusion began.

I believe the whole section of the article is not worded clearly enough. Many interpret it as- free, I interpret it as "worked hours". This is inside the radius.

This brings up an interesting question, if you are hurt in an accident, in a company truck, during your commute, is it a workman's comp claim? Many are not being paid in side their radius, but are traveling under company instructions and are responsible for company property. Many times I find myself 100 miles from home at the end of the day, some times in the 50 mile shop radius, sometimes not.

I usually give my drive home free - if I'm within the city limit

You've worked for generous companies or you've worked under local agreements that are more generous than the NSMA. When you work under contract the only thing you can count on is what's specified in the contract. The contract I work under (NSMA) isn't worded the way you describe. I generally get paid driveway to driveway everyday. If I do get that paid, that means some customer is getting billed that time, sometimes I don't want that to happen so I stop my time at my last stop.

Commute time pay isn't even on my list of grievances between what the NSMA says and my employer is doing.


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It was best explained like this - draw a circle. The center is the middle of town or the shop. Anything inside the circle is hours worked, ST, OT, or DT. If you went outside the circle, then the time it took you to get there wasn't "hours worked". It was paid as equal to ST - without Fringes. I have never given my 1st and last travel hours free. I've been UA for almost 15 years.

All time IN EXCESS OF REASONABLE COMMUTE shall be paid for = no pay unless more than reasonable commute which is the 50 mile radius/1 hour thing.


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Where does it say" unpaid"? It says if you travel outside the 50 mile / 1 hour radius then the Travel Time is equal to Straight Time - in pay. It never says your "Commute" is free.

Our of the NSMA. Not to argue. Attachment 533961


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A Union Agreement will never mention "unpaid" time. That's another common misconception.

NSMA allows for 50 mile radius of normal office unpaid. So there you go.

Sounds like there's another paragraph in your local agreement further specifying what travel is to be paid.


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Here goes, for those giving up their 1st & last Travel Time hour.

In the Hiring & Use of Employees Article within the Agreement I work under, it states:
"The employee shall be paid for travel in accordance with this Agreement."

It doesn't state:
The employee shall not be paid for travel in accordance with this Agreement.

Originally Posted by valdelocc

There isn't such thing as "MESJ" wage, it falls under the "whatever the contractors feel like paying.." thats the way its been done around here.

Any Journeyman working Service under a National Agreement is an MESJ.

Originally Posted by CFESAmasterEGSR

WE're mixed up? Or vadelocc is?

Or am I confused? Lol


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Sorry I wasn't only speaking about this thread. It seems many use the term MES erroneously.

Originally Posted by CFESAmasterEGSR

When you say "MES guys" are you talking about Mechanical Equipment Serviceman or Mechanical Equipment Service Journeyman? They are two different classifications.

What you are describing is a Mechanical Equipment Serviceman, and you are right on the pay percentage of scale.

What we are trying to pin down is what specifically is the correct wage for a Mechanical Equipment Service Journeyman.


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There isn't such thing as "MESJ" wage, it falls under the "whatever the contractors feel like paying.." thats the way its been done around here.

When you say "MES guys" are you talking about Mechanical Equipment Serviceman or Mechanical Equipment Service Journeyman? They are two different classifications.

What you are describing is a Mechanical Equipment Serviceman, and you are right on the pay percentage of scale.

What we are trying to pin down is what specifically is the correct wage for a Mechanical Equipment Service Journeyman.


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