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Originally Posted by Lisa Hickey

The removable metal pin was included i...The new generation CCV fixed all of this.
Attachment 408041

great info!

I likethe little wedge-opening insert in the 1/2" ss water zone valves:

found at about 40 psi on a variable well water pump it was a near perfect 10 GPM (cv tag can qualify)
for my 7 ton geothermal app (a chiller with an RV) at high heating speed on 50f water.

But "fixes" will be unfixed regularly as I have to plumb with different head configurations, usually.

2) There is nothing in the documentation coming with the new actuator to indicate the pin is in there or that it is required to be removed prior to using the device.

I don't have the sheets that came with the actuator any more but I do know that there was nothing on there indicating any sort of pin. I looked for a while, as did the building engineer and another service tech prior to me.

The pin will only allow the actuator to be mounted in one direction only.

This is useful only if being used on a new-generation valve body. Belimo should have thought to include a piece of paper with some ink on it explaining that to use the new actuator on a pre-2012 valve body that the pin needs to be removed prior to attempting to install. The supplier that sold the actuator didn't even know about it until called and asked by the building engineer, and this was in April 2013.

Great idea, and I get it because I know I've dealt with countless well-intentioned yet ham-fisted people that did not think to verify the valve position by looking on the stem prior to installing the actuator. But in my opinion, Belimo really dropped the ball on letting people know about the small-yet-significant change.

But thank you, Lisa, for filling in some blanks on this one.

One time I sat down and figured out how many different ways a Belimo Actuator and a 3 way 3/4" valve could be set up. I quit when I got close to 300 possibilities. i couldn't figure out if I had duplicates even though the set would be different, but the control results would be the same.

Originally Posted by osiyo

But the mechanical guys when installing the valves in the first place ... can be a real PIA. Sometimes if they've removed the actuators yah never know which way the put them back on or what relationship the ball position bears with the indicator. I've had jobs where I finally had to verify 100% of the installed valves by pulling all the actuators and checking. Can be a pain when you're talking 2 - 3 hundred valves. Some of which are in really difficult places to get to.

My favorite is when the actuator is indicating "open/closed" at a 90° angle but the ball valve is at a 45° angle to the indicator. Never at a fully open or closed position unless it is mid-stroke and you can't tell until you're at the valve and turning it by hand to hear the flow.

Originally Posted by orion242

Pretty sure it because all the newer valve bodies are keyed in a way that the actuator must go back on correctly. Prevents someone from removing the actuator, turning the stem, and re-seating the actuator on the valve now 90 deg out of whack.

Not a bad feature if you have installers that seem to remove the actuators to wire them and then end up installing them on in a different position, and the indicators are now all out of whack.

The last replacement valve actuator I got, had both screws. Maybe it because I have been burned before and make it a point request EVERYTHING I may need to replace when ordering.

If the new valves are keyed, that is great. It should help with stopping people from putting the actuators on incorrectly, myself included. But if they are selling new actuators to fit on old valves it would seem to make sense (to me) to notify the customers of that one, little change in their instructions/documentation. Heck, they could even put in an additional 3x5" note card stating the pin is now installed in the shaft if they cannot edit the existing instruction page. I'm know for a fact that I'm not the first one around to have felt like I was losing my mind trying to get a new actuator on.

Originally Posted by orion242

Pretty sure it because all the newer valve bodies are keyed in a way that the actuator must go back on correctly. Prevents someone from removing the actuator, turning the stem, and re-seating the actuator on the valve now 90 deg out of whack.

Not a bad feature if you have installers that seem to remove the actuators to wire them and then end up installing them on in a different position, and the indicators are now all out of whack

Yeah, I hate it when that happens. I have more problems with the fitters/plumbers (depends on which site/area) getting things out of whack than I do with anyone else. i.e. Our guys who do the wiring are electricians. They rarely feel the need to remove the actuator during a new install as we always order the units with whips already installed, just to keep things simple and installation faster. And we've instructed them about actuator removal and replacement so they're aware of the issue of getting actuator back on exactly as it came off.

But the mechanical guys when installing the valves in the first place ... can be a real PIA. Sometimes if they've removed the actuators yah never know which way the put them back on or what relationship the ball position bears with the indicator. I've had jobs where I finally had to verify 100% of the installed valves by pulling all the actuators and checking. Can be a pain when you're talking 2 - 3 hundred valves. Some of which are in really difficult places to get to.

Originally Posted by madhat

Also why did they change the screw size for their smaller valves, and not include the new screw, or at the very least tell you a different screw was needed? No fun standing on the top off a ten foot ladder, I couldn't get a taller ladder to open out in the space. Also I couldn't get above the valve to see what was going on, had to do everything by feel.

Hmmm ... pretty much for the past 12 years that I've worked with them, the single screw attached Belimo valve actuators have taken 1 of TWO different thread diameter screws. Either M4 or M5, IIRC without going out to the truck and checking. Length can vary depending on the actuator. You can order the screws separately, or specify that you want the screws when ordering the actuator only to be used as a replacement.

The LRB is available with the -T option which has terminals and no whip.

Handy if your required to have a box at any splice point.

If I'm not mistaken the LRB has a pigtail wire harness, so no need to remove it for wiring. Also, from memory, that is a high temperature / high corrosion actuator, and is the one I used in a Nanotorium unit.

Can someone tell me again how to post a picture? I'll post the detailed drawing, I made. on how to set up the Actuators and Three-way valves?

>Does anyone know WHY the pin is in there, other than to generate business for the pharmaceutical industry making blood pressure medicine?

Pretty sure it because all the newer valve bodies are keyed in a way that the actuator must go back on correctly. Prevents someone from removing the actuator, turning the stem, and re-seating the actuator on the valve now 90 deg out of whack.

Not a bad feature if you have installers that seem to remove the actuators to wire them and then end up installing them on in a different position, and the indicators are now all out of whack.

The last replacement valve actuator I got, had both screws. Maybe it because I have been burned before and make it a point request EVERYTHING I may need to replace when ordering.

Also why did they change the screw size for their smaller valves, and not include the new screw, or at the very least tell you a different screw was needed? No fun standing on the top off a ten foot ladder, I couldn't get a taller ladder to open out in the space. Also I couldn't get above the valve to see what was going on, had to do everything by feel.

New Belimo Actuators

Hopefully this will be an easy set of questions to answer.

1) When did Belimo begin inserting a small, metal pin in the shaft of the of their LRB replacements? I spent a disturbing amount of time trying to figure out WHY the new actuator would not fit on the valve body only to discover a small, metal pin jammed in one corner of the actuator shaft. It slides out easy enough, but you need to know the danged thing is in there first in order to remove it.

2) There is nothing in the documentation coming with the new actuator to indicate the pin is in there or that it is required to be removed prior to using the device. Does anyone know WHY the pin is in there, other than to generate business for the pharmaceutical industry making blood pressure medicine?

The building engineer thought I would have known about it and apologized for not sharing the news. He and another tech had to call the supplier to figure out what the heck the problem was and how to get the new actuators to fit.

Thanks for any logical, reasonable, should-be-obvious kind of answers.