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Originally Posted by AACHP

My opinion - York offers limited product line and I don't think overall quality is there. Goodman / Amana much better product line and warranties. But which ever brand you select the true decider is the installation.

Can't stand all of the product bashing. I have been in the HVAC trade for 8 years now and have installed Trane, Goodman, Keeprite, York, Ducane, and many more. When it comes down to it they are basically the same!!

Originally Posted by AACHP

My opinion - York offers limited product line and I don't think overall quality is there.

Limited in what way?

They have the same lines of equipment as any other brand.
And have a mod furnace(that actually modulates), that many other brands still don't have.

Originally Posted by AACHP

My opinion - York offers limited product line and I don't think overall quality is there. Goodman / Amana much better product line and warranties. But which ever brand you select the true decider is the installation.

To complement your suggestion I selected a contractor that sells Bryant, Rheem and Trane. So it's not about either York or Amana anymore
thanks

My opinion - York offers limited product line and I don't think overall quality is there. Goodman / Amana much better product line and warranties. But which ever brand you select the true decider is the installation.

60,000 input.

Average home owner that uses HVAC Calc, generally has it figured out in a short period of time.

You have been asking questions for over 2 weeks. If it takes a day or 2 to learn how to use it, its worth it.

Lots of contractors just select the next size smaller furnace. Maybe thats why all 6 are saying the same thing. Its the next size smaller then you have.

Originally Posted by beenthere

Its not that hard to do a manual J. Its worth while to do your own.

Okay I give up. I downloaded the HVAC-CALC trial version and watched the videos - there is no way I can get something out of it that I myself can trust. It will take days if not weeks for me to understand all the selections. And I'm tired of talking with contructors The last one didn't even want to come because I asked too many questions. So I guess I'm set on 60k, because 6 out of 7 contructors recomended it So I said 6 can't be wrong unless they all studied in the same school

My old furnace is 75k input 57k output. What does the nominal 60k mean? If that's the output then I guess It will be more powerfull than the old one and hopefully work on the first stage.

Thanks.

There's a very significant difference between 60 and 80k input.

How many sizes?

40k, 45k, 50k, 60k, 70k, 75k, 80k, 90k, 100k 105k, 110k, 115k, 120k. So atleast 13.

Its not that hard to do a manual J. Its worth while to do your own.

And Canada also has its own load calc method known as F280 as I recall.

Originally Posted by beenthere

Screen them over the phone. Don't do load calcs, no reason to come out.

Apparently, we have different standards in Canada. I was told by all the contractors that it's not a common practice. One of them actually told me "how many sizes are out there anyways? 45k is too small for you. That means you're between 60k - 80k and you can't miss that much going with any furnace in that range". Another York contractor coming in today said he can do the load calculation but it's not part of the free estimate service and it will cost me $. How hard is it to do Manual J? It seems I can download it for 50$. Can a non-professianal like me do it?

Screen them over the phone. Don't do load calcs, no reason to come out.

Keep on getting quotes until you find a good contractor; might have to go through 10+ companies to get someone decent.

Originally Posted by beenthere

While the Amana you were quoted does have a 4 ton blower(max size A/C the furnace should be used with).
It would be set up for the air that the furnace needs for its heating BTUs.
Not just set to move max air flow.

A modulating furnace will work ok on less then perfect duct. The same as any 2 stage, or single stage furnace will.

Your getting some BS contractors to give you estimates.

I have to say the contractors I'm speaking with don't impress me. I've got 5 quotes so far. All the contractors promoted their products and refered nagatively (directly or inderictly) to the other brands. All the contractors were against the heat loss calculation basing their decisions on the "decades of experience". I can't seem to find a good contractor in the Toronto area.

While the Amana you were quoted does have a 4 ton blower(max size A/C the furnace should be used with).
It would be set up for the air that the furnace needs for its heating BTUs.
Not just set to move max air flow.

A modulating furnace will work ok on less then perfect duct. The same as any 2 stage, or single stage furnace will.

Your getting some BS contractors to give you estimates.

Thanks very much to all of you.
I've decided to drop Amana. Another guy came in. They sell Bryant, Rheem and Trane. He said Amana uses 4 ton blower (I hope I got that correctly) and with my ducts, which by his opinion are small, it will cause a lot of noise. That may or may not be true but I'm at the point that I need to decide (or I will be chosing for the whole winter ). So Amana is out. I'm still waiting for another York contractor to come in a few days. Over the phone, he suggested the modulating model. Other contractors expressed opinion that modulating will not work with small ducts because they need near to perfect return air flow.

Originally Posted by snamin

Can't I solve this by closing or partially closing registers in the living room where the thermostat is installed?

Doing so will just make the living room colder than other areas; the furnace will simply run more and overheat the rest of the house.

By the way, the Amana guy said that the old (non-digital round type) thermostat is okay and I don't need to replace it. I'm just wondering how the 2 stage Amana furnace will know which stage to use if the thermostat doesn't tell it. The York guy was positive that I need a new thermostat.

See beenthere's post.

.................................................. ..............
The AMH just uses a timer for staging and should be avoided - get the AMV.

Depends which model.
The lower end models can't use one. The higher end can I think.

I forgot about that though.

Originally Posted by beenthere

The thermostat doesn't tell the board what the temp in the house is. It simply tells teh furnace to run or not, and in the case of a 2 stgae thermostat, what stage to run in.

The idea of 2 stage is long run times to improve comfort.
By using the board. You lose a lot of that long run time. It just uses a timer. May or may not have some logic on that board. that might kick second stage in faster because it ran for X minutes last time.

Using a 2 thermostat. The furnace won't go to second stage unless needed.


Often times, with a single stage stat, when it gets a little colder out. The furnace goes into second stage for ½ a minute or so, at the end of the cycle needlessly. Because the timer timed it on.

Hey Been,

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that I am. I believe Goodman/Amana 2 stage furnaces(which they all are now) have to run off of a single stage thermostat. They are designed this way with only a W terminal, no W2. This is performed via a dipswitch in the furnace which is field selectable. I believe the internal board does have some decent logic to it, it isn't just a timer.

The thermostat doesn't tell the board what the temp in the house is. It simply tells teh furnace to run or not, and in the case of a 2 stgae thermostat, what stage to run in.

The idea of 2 stage is long run times to improve comfort.
By using the board. You lose a lot of that long run time. It just uses a timer. May or may not have some logic on that board. that might kick second stage in faster because it ran for X minutes last time.

Using a 2 thermostat. The furnace won't go to second stage unless needed.


Often times, with a single stage stat, when it gets a little colder out. The furnace goes into second stage for ½ a minute or so, at the end of the cycle needlessly. Because the timer timed it on.

Originally Posted by beenthere

Beware of contractors that don't use 2 stage stats on 2 stage furnaces that can take advantage of a 2 stage stat.

Any particular reason why? I double checked with the Amana guy. He said the decision which stage to use is made by the control board inside the furnace. All the control board needs to get from the thermostat is the temperature on the main floor.

Beware of contractors that don't use 2 stage stats on 2 stage furnaces that can take advantage of a 2 stage stat.