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And now after Amana's change from tan to grey......

Today they send me out a 4 yr old heatpump. They give me all the new books, literature etc. I sell a doctor buddy a top quality system, "Look, the color even matches your siding" I tell his wife.
And today I get a 2001 model tan one AT THE SAME PRICE AS TODAYS EQUIPMENT!

Egoteq, Call it brand bashing if you like, I call it pointing out the obvious.

Ditto

thanks for the numbers, RoBo

Originally posted by RoBoTeq


As for having a proper venue to complain; consumer affairs 877-254-4729 and technical support 888-593-9988 would be the proper places for those who want to make a difference.

[/B]

Thank you Robo........

THE ALMIGHTY NUMBER ONE

Originally posted by RoBoTeq

This part may be a hint of what maidenusa's issues with Goodman are. Maybe maidenusa is one of the Amana deadwood that was fired when Goodman bought Amana. Whatever the obsession is, it really gets in the way of rational discussions.

Do not flatter yourself. It would cost you more money than Goodmana is willing spend to get me to work for you and push you to the almighty number one position you people have been chasing now it seems forever. But hey, when John feels like he has exhausted all his avenues for leadership in the HVAC field, I never close the door to opportunity if the money is right.

If I can dissect your marketing program on this forum and shred it to pieces, it does not say very much for the abilities of this department. You can have the biggest piece of junk for a product and still move a large quantity of goods, but when you have the lowest price, best warranties, a good quality product and have not been able to reach the number one position, it all comes down to leadership from the top and not knowing how to market in this industry.

When John needs a CEO to drive you to number ONE and really blow the bottom out of this industry, tell him to catch up with me, I will be around.

P.S. Do not let your present CEO see this, I would not want him to feel inferior or threatened.

P.S.S. This would also mean I would be your boss Robo.

Oh goody, frozenstiff and maidenusa are ganging up

Anywho, yes, there are many features of the Goodman and the Amana brands that are becoming, well, Goodmana-ish. I don't particularly see this as a bad thing.

There will always be differences between the brands, just not as vast in the future. Both the Goodman and Amana brands of condensing furnaces have been moved into the Amana style of cabinetry because it was a better design. Both brands of non-condensing furnaces have moved into a heavier steel Goodman style cabinet, because it is more durable. Amana will keep the tubular heat exchangers stainless steel while the Goodman brand will be using aluminized steel. The Amana will have the better silicon nitride adaptive ignition while the Goodman brand will be using the mini-Norton adaptive ignition.

Yes, the two brands owned and manufactured by the same company will continue to use standardized components while still maintaining seperate quality features to distinguish them from one another.

The purchase of Amana has greatly increased the quality of the Goodman branded products. Amana systems have greatly reduced in price due to the Goodman ability to administrat at a much lower cost than Amana did when Amana was owned by the defense giant, "Raytheon".

While unnecesary deadwood was removed from the overly administrated Amana those with Amana that do the actual creating of the product have not only remained but are now in charge of both brands. All technical support for both brands has been moved to the old Amana plant in Fayetteville.

This part may be a hint of what maidenusa's issues with Goodman are. Maybe maidenusa is one of the Amana deadwood that was fired when Goodman bought Amana. Whatever the obsession is, it really gets in the way of rational discussions.

As for having a proper venue to complain; consumer affairs 877-254-4729 and technical support 888-593-9988 would be the proper places for those who want to make a difference.

In about a month I will be working with hybrid, specialty equipment that seems to be influence highly by Trane. I have always maintained that brand should never be a reason to bash equipment and I dare anyone to find a post where I ever bashed a brand. Only the most ridiculous would do so.

Originally posted by spotts


Robin. You told us yourself that Goodmana watches this site.

They should be watching John Goodman, not this site, because he is due for his annual cleaning of the house at the top level he religiously performs every three years since he acquired the company. He usually performs this ritual about this time of year too.

I can not blame him though, the competence of the talent he keeps acquiring is SUBPAR.

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Between the brand bashers and the DIY support here, just where is the HVAC support?

Good question robo. We’re sure not getting any from you. Other than take two hardstarts, and a hammer, and call me in two weeks.

RoBo .. Please read ......

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spotts
[B]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
...... PRICE IS NOT THE ONLY FACTOR IN CHOOSING A BRAND BONEHEADS!!!!!

yea, RoBo .....

i dumped Trane for Amana, 'cause Trane was cheapin' up the product .... now i got the same problem again ... first the cabinet .. then, let me guess .. maybe the gauge of metal in the heat exchanger ?? ... 'til, 'till .. it's a ... GOODMANA ..??????

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Between the brand bashers and the DIY support here, just where is the HVAC support?

Robin. You told us yourself that Goodmana watches this site. I've never been given a name or number of an Amana top guy to voice these very real concerns with...... so I'm doing it here in hopes they will notice and see the responce to them totally lying on the promise since day 1 of Goodman takeover "Don't worry......... Amana will stay our Top Brand and we'll never cheapen it to Goodman Standards. We honestly want both, the best and the cheapest in 2 separate lines" but I guess it's like when a farmer plants his sweetcorn next to the hardcorn. Those brands have now cross polinated and they have ruined the Amana Brand Furnaces. "Built better than it has to be" was exactly what attracted me to Amana. Lowering quality at the same price, with little or no service, absolutely no dealer support, and no dealer incentives are what's driving me away. I'd like them to hear this...... PRICE IS NOT THE ONLY FACTOR IN CHOOSING A BRAND BONEHEADS!!!!! Thanx Robo if you can pass that on. Jack

Between the brand bashers and the DIY support here, just where is the HVAC support?

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Ya know, I keep hearing the idiots claiming there is so much difference between their favorite brand and Goodman and it boils down to one word; "bullsh*t"!

If you know what you are doing you can work with anything. Those who make ridiculous claims of thin sheet metal are full of it. Thousands upon thousands of Goodman furnaces are installed by some not so great installers so if someone claims they have problems with Goodman they must be the worst there is claiming to be HVAC technicians.

If you don't like something, which I have my own likes and dislikes, at least don't lie about what you don't like. Since there are more Goodman furnaces heating more homes in North America than any other singular brand it is just ridiculous to make some of the statements that are made.

Honestly folks, it really makes you sound incompetent to not be able to deal with a brand that those you call hacks deal with every day.

Ya know, I keep hearing the idiots claiming there is so much difference between their favorite brand and Goodman and it boils down to one word; "bullsh*t"!

Madeinusa…….Read the paragraph below. You answer your own statement in regards to the difference between Goodman and favorite brand with these words,” Thousands upon thousands of Goodman furnaces are installed by some not so great installers”. There is your difference right there. Maybe the ”idiots” as you call us do NOT want to be associated with your “not so great installers”.


If you know what you are doing you can work with anything.

Madeinusa……..Some people prefer to work with quality being their company’s reputation is riding on it, but what would a manufacture care about that for when they lie to your face.


Those who make ridiculous claims of thin sheet metal are full of it.

Madeinusa…….Only an “idiot” manufacture would ignore problems being presented to them from tradesmen all over the country.


Thousands upon thousands of Goodman furnaces are installed by some not so great installers

Madeinusa……everyone has known this for years, you are not telling us anything new here. It is nice to know GOODMAN/AMANA, the manufacturer, can finally admit this fact though in public.


so if someone claims they have problems with Goodman they must be the worst there is claiming to be HVAC technicians.

Madeinusa…..Look here, you even admit it yourself when you stated,”Thousands upon thousands of Goodman furnaces are installed by some not so great installers”.


If you don't like something, which I have my own likes and dislikes, at least don't lie about what you don't like.

Madeinusa……thanks for not lying here when you stated,” Thousands upon thousands of Goodman furnaces are installed by some not so great installers”.


Since there are more Goodman furnaces heating more homes in North America than any other singular brand it is just ridiculous to make some of the statements that are made.

Madeinusa……I am glad you feel this way, because I KNOW your statement of,” Thousands upon thousands of Goodman furnaces are installed by some not so great installers” is NOT a ridiculous statement.


Honestly folks, it really makes you sound incompetent to not be able to deal with a brand that those you call hacks deal with every day.

Madeinusa……again, everyone has known this for years, you are not telling us anything new here. It is nice to know GOODMAN/AMANA, the manufacturer, can finally admit this fact though in public of HACKS DEAL WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT EVERYDAY. Actually, we are competent, because only an INCOMPETENT person would want to associate their company with GOODMAN/AMANA who through your own admissions has,” Thousands upon thousands of Goodman furnaces are installed by some not so great installers”.


P.S. GOODMAN CAN RUN FROM THE TRUTH, BUT THEY CAN NOT HIDE.
__________________

[Edited by madeinusa on 10-19-2004 at 04:32 PM]

Oh Robo..........

It has nothing to do with the "Goodman has more working furnaces than anybodyelse....... yadayadayada...."

It has everything to do with broken promises and lack of support. I just signed my secretary up for a class offered by Am. Std. on how to handle phone calls exactly right to set up sales, and how to close sales on walk in customers. Then my techs get a class on how to sell while on service....... That is worth one helluva lot more to me than cheap furnaces. Actually you may have read A/S is approx. 1.5 times the price of an Amana 95% 2 st. var. spd. That price doesn't scare me at all. Lowering quality and saying its "Bullshit" that we all dont just love it does. Some companys [actually only 1 that I know of] think price alone drives sales. I think they'll find it will drive their best dealers away.

If only Hacks install Goodman then I'm the king of all Hacks and damn proud of it.

My Goodmans run trouble-free for years on end.

It may all just be in your guy's heads. You think Goodman is junk so you just don't install it with the same quality or satisfaction you would a piece of crap Carrier or Trane. Around here it's Trane and Carrier that are the ones to avoid. Lennox isn't too bad but Amana and Goodman have the market share.

Ya know, I keep hearing the idiots claiming there is so much difference between their favorite brand and Goodman and it boils down to one word; "bullsh*t"!

If you know what you are doing you can work with anything. Those who make ridiculous claims of thin sheet metal are full of it. Thousands upon thousands of Goodman furnaces are installed by some not so great installers so if someone claims they have problems with Goodman they must be the worst there is claiming to be HVAC technicians.

If you don't like something, which I have my own likes and dislikes, at least don't lie about what you don't like. Since there are more Goodman furnaces heating more homes in North America than any other singular brand it is just ridiculous to make some of the statements that are made.

Honestly folks, it really makes you sound incompetent to not be able to deal with a brand that those you call hacks deal with every day.

Consider Ruud/Rheem. Look at the distributor. What do they offer? I just took over 2 Amana guys that have been there for 30+ years.

Originally posted by dash

Originally posted by lynn rodenmayer
You could go with Carrier.

Just kidding.

Carrier,is great for us.

NO Kidding.

Don't see many Carrier Dealers complaining here,other than BenCool.

I was employed by a Carrier dealer for eight years. Got tired of leaking coils and bad ignitors. Now I'm with a Lennox dealer. Still making up my mind if it is better or worse.

I installed 4 goodman furnaces 2 years ago. Yes they have some very thin metal, I was almost afraid to move them in fear of destroying them.

This was an apartment job, so they all went to the same place. One of them didn't work on start up. A year later the other three broke down at three different times of course. And yes they were installed properly.


Coleman MH furnaces are another headache but I still use them when the owner doesn't want to spend the money on a high efficiency 2 pipe furnace. I have box loads of warranty parts for coleman I still need to take back and fill out paperwork for.

I have been a Trane dealer for the past 4 years. I have had 1 condenser fan motor go bad on a unit 3 years old. Other than that I have not had any service calls for Trane units installed by me or otherwise.

I get great technical support whenever I have a question. I get great customer service everytime I call. If they make a mistake, they take care of it and I have never had to raise my voice to them. And some of you know how much I like to raise my voice

Ya know, I'm surprised

and also not that much.... at the agreement I'm getting here. I kept a very open mind and believed Goodman on all of their promises. They've held good for a few years now. Then they brought all us dealers together in Denver and announced "We have a completely new management team!" and whammo, they went to pot. Hell of a price difference for quality tho..... An Am Std 90%2st var. spd. costs 1½ times as much as a Goodmana.