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Originally Posted by Makinhole

I would like to see wireless k type clamps to use with my NEW SMAN3 so I could take more accurate superheat readings from the outlet of the evaporator coil while I am at the condenser where my gauges are hooked up. Thanks for listening.

In order to measure evaporator superheat you would have to measure the pressure and the temperature at the same location as there is a pressure drop in the line between the suction service valve and the evaporator outlet.

When I want to check the superheat at the outlet, AI typically pump down the system and install a braze in access fitting at the evaporator outlet. Later if the service requires service this is also a great place to install your vacuum gauge.

If you remember the old Sporlan T& P charts if you measured suction pressure at the condenser you had to add 2-3 psi to the reading then convert to saturation temp to determine the superheat. This however is only a guess. A kinked suction line, short radius fittings, not reaming the line, under sizing or excessive length would all impact performance.

Why did they used to do that? Systems were engineered. Today they are to often just "built".

Originally Posted by itsiceman

Is the metal sensor fixed or does it slide into the case when measuring?

It is fixed. It is larger than I expected. I am sure they gave the dimensions, I guess it just didn't register. The battery cover broke first time I put a battery in. The box talks about a cover but there was none just the device. I am very happy with its performance though. Seems as fast as my Fluke but does not display in tenth's of a degree. I got the "hi" temp version, I think it is 250 degrees. It is handy, I really am just using it on pm's. If I suspect a problem I go for the Fluke 52.

Russ,

Thanks for allowing us to help to develop the tools that we need to do our job better.

Here is a product that I like but just does not last. I have been through 3 of them in less than a year and will not buy another one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4005I-Cooper...08845941013808

Originally Posted by pageyjim

I received mine a couple days ago. Pleased with the performance. Responds as fast as my Fluke 52 and pipe probe. It is accurate, though does not show in tenths of a degree . The little piece on the battery cover broke the first time I put a battery in.

http://72.21.207.34/Supco-PT100-Digi.../dp/B004XS0X20

Is the metal sensor fixed or does it slide into the case when measuring?

Originally Posted by itsiceman

Thanks for posting that. I haven't seen that one.
RTD sensor with .2 ˚F surface temp accuracy
Its worth a shot. I'll let you know how it works.

I received mine a couple days ago. Pleased with the performance. Responds as fast as my Fluke 52 and pipe probe. It is accurate, though does not show in tenths of a degree . The little piece on the battery cover broke the first time I put a battery in.

http://72.21.207.34/Supco-PT100-Digi.../dp/B004XS0X20

Originally Posted by kangaroogod

Great thread. I ordered my sman 3,yesterday and can't wait for it to arrive. Thanks for all the Info!

Thanks! Let us know how you like it. And if you have any questions feel free to contact me.

Great thread. I ordered my sman 3,yesterday and can't wait for it to arrive. Thanks for all the Info!

Originally Posted by pageyjim

Are you talking about something like this?

http://72.21.207.34/Supco-PT100-Digi.../dp/B004XS0X20

I'm not a fan of Supco but I would find it useful. Testo has a similar one but it looks too expensive and flimsy imo.

Also are you getting good feedback on your wireless system?

That's ok are far as it goes, but there's no air temps with that, so not really.

Thanks for posting that. I haven't seen that one.
RTD sensor with .2 ˚F surface temp accuracy
Its worth a shot. I'll let you know how it works.

Originally Posted by RussellHarju

This is for a much smaller product and what i really want to know if guys take quick measurements before doing any analysis to get an idea of what may be wrong. Sort of a quick check to get his plan of attack for diagnostics.

Are you talking about something like this?

http://72.21.207.34/Supco-PT100-Digi.../dp/B004XS0X20

I'm not a fan of Supco but I would find it useful. Testo has a similar one but it looks too expensive and flimsy imo.

Also are you getting good feedback on your wireless system?

Originally Posted by itsiceman

Well if a contact version is in the works PLEASE no flashlight or laser......
.......Would like all battery/space dedicated to the temp function.

Thanks for the suggestions Iceman.

Well if a contact version is in the works PLEASE no flashlight or laser......
.......Would like all battery/space dedicated to the temp function.

Originally Posted by itsiceman

Russ is the SIL2 I/R pen style for these "pipe temperatures" you were asking about or is there still a true contact version in the works?




http://www.fieldpiece.com/PDF/Manual...n-SIL2-web.pdf

No the IR really can't be used easily for pipe temps. Because the surface is metallic and reflects the light it won't give you accurate readings. And even if you cover with dull tape the it's difficult to measure a small area on a rounded pipe accurately. IR is meant for flat dull surfaces and usually just a "check".

Originally Posted by itsiceman

Russ is the SIL2 I/R pen style for these "pipe temperatures" you were asking about or is there still a true contact version in the works?




http://www.fieldpiece.com/PDF/Manual...n-SIL2-web.pdf

I'm listening... I was wondering just a few days ago if anything came of it. I'm not interested in an IR type.

Russ is the SIL2 I/R pen style for these "pipe temperatures" you were asking about or is there still a true contact version in the works?




http://www.fieldpiece.com/PDF/Manual...n-SIL2-web.pdf

First let me say that I think it's absolutely brilliant of Fieldpiece to use HVAC-Talk as a sounding board for product development. I think there are a bunch of great creative guys here that would love to see some of their ideas realized and/or wants and needs met by a instrument company, so thank you Fieldpeice! I hope this proves worthwhile to you.

Originally Posted by itsiceman

If the sensor will work just as good reading at reading air and liquid temps you will have something. Pipe temps alone is not enough info for a meaningful quick check. The testo works well for all three but the whole thing is fragile. Also would like to see a sliding shield for taking surface measurements around air movement and exposed for air temps. I think one sensor only especially if it is a TC is the only way to go with this. It's more accurate for taking differential temps. in the same environment.

Double down on the dittos for Iceman's post. If we are talking resi forced air application, then it really needs to do both air and pipe(surface) temps.

Let me firm up my concept of how this might work. First, the format of a retractable pen comes to mind, using the outer case to protect the sensor from damage. You click the "pen" and the sensor pops into view, and it turns on. It should be noted that the sensor, what ever it's makeup should be isolated from other masses to improve speed and accuracy of the reading. (I am aware that this is intended to be a fairly low budget item, but I would suggest some effort to do what can be done. Please see the testo and also the Fluke 80pk-8 as an example of trying to minimize thermal bridging) You can use the testo 550 pipe clamp as an example of how NOT to do it.

The sensor could be attached to the end of an collapsible pole (think 70's style antenna) so that it could extend into the duct something like 8-12" for air readings. It would be a plus if it had two additional features-

1) some kind of sharp point for cutting a small hole in the canvas connector.

2) memory for four readings- Return Air, Supply Air, Liquid Line, Suction Line

could be powered by AAA or button cell, AAA would be better.


BTW, I don't do a "walk around" currently, but if I had a tool like this I might!


I have been interested in somebody producing a dual temp thermometer for RA/SA for a while now, this has got me wondering if I should explain the idea to you Russell! I think it would be right up Fieldpeice's alley.

Originally Posted by itsiceman

If the sensor will work just as good reading at reading air and liquid temps you will have something. Pipe temps alone is not enough info for a meaningful quick check. The testo works well for all three but the whole thing is fragile. Also would like to see a sliding shield for taking surface measurements around air movement and exposed for air temps. I think one sensor only especially if it is a TC is the only way to go with this. It's more accurate for taking differential temps. in the same environment.

Good info. Thanks!

Originally Posted by RussellHarju

This is the type of thing we thinking just for quick checks. I imagine a tech doing a basic walk around to get his bearings on the system and taking some quick measurements to get an idea of where to start the diagnostics.

To do the diagnostics he probably wouldn't be using the same pen tool, and would probably want to have his gauges, pipeclamps, airflow instruments, etc. to properly diagnose the system.

Am i on the right track about how you guys do the job?

If the sensor will work just as good reading at reading air and liquid temps you will have something. Pipe temps alone is not enough info for a meaningful quick check. The testo works well for all three but the whole thing is fragile. Also would like to see a sliding shield for taking surface measurements around air movement and exposed for air temps. I think one sensor only especially if it is a TC is the only way to go with this. It's more accurate for taking differential temps. in the same environment.

Originally Posted by RussellHarju

This is the type of thing we thinking just for quick checks. I imagine a tech doing a basic walk around to get his bearings on the system and taking some quick measurements to get an idea of where to start the diagnostics.

To do the diagnostics he probably wouldn't be using the same pen tool, and would probably want to have his gauges, pipeclamps, airflow instruments, etc. to properly diagnose the system.

Am i on the right track about how you guys do the job?

Exactly, can you have one by the end of the month?

Originally Posted by mason

Russell, I work in residential and light commercial. I always hook up my gauges and check superheat and subcool. I use analogs with the srh2 digital psychrometer for pipe temps. I think the srh2 is a great tool but it would be even better with 2 k type plugs and the ability to show both line temps simultaneously. This would also make it so that you could check supply and return temp simultaneously as well. You guys probably already have a dual plug temp meter but I think it should come on the srh2 as well because we always look to carry as few tools as possible if we can help it. I also second a pipe clamp that can fit into smaller spaces. I've seen your new line of clamps have the spring break through the plastic when guys squeeze at the end of the handles. Two out of 6 did this at our shop. On the wireless scale it's not a biggie but with how beefy and tough the scale is I would like to see the plastic handle come with a rubber skin for protection from drops, just like how the srh2 had a rubber outer skin/boot.

Great info. I like the idea of have 3 temp measurements on one meter.