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Originally Posted by VTP99

PASSION !!! that's what one needs to be successful in this trade.

Passion! thats a big word! do you think that the mail man goes home after delivering the last bill and studies his trade? how bout a locksmith? carpenter? mason?painters,plumbers etc?. are we HVAC mechanics supposed to give up our lives for the sake of our trade? in exchange for what?30K 40K 50K a year? UPS guys make that much.
There are many more things that I enjoy doing more than working. I consider myself pretty good at what I do, love the trade but I have a family, house, friends and hobbies and thats what really matters to me.

PASSION !!! that's what one needs to be successful in this trade.

Originally Posted by toocoolforschool

Or what about the guy who steels your tools and then helps you look for them.

eek...friends like that who needs enemies ?

Or what about the guy who steels your tools and then helps you look for them.

Some people fall under the "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" they make it their creed.

Originally Posted by toocoolforschool

These types of posts are intended to draw a line between those who own and those who are worker bees.

Not at all.

Some guys go to work in a job, and thirst to learn everything possible about the place they work....others show up, and do what they have to do to get paid, not caring what the company does or why.

Most people fall somewhere in between....but, it's a very broad range in between.

Some guys get off at five, go home and drink beer and watch TV in the evening....while others spend their free time studying their career.....like many of the guys on this forum.

Look around. There are plenty of people in the trade like the ones I've described. They shun training ("I don't need that BS")....but bow up like a bullfrog when you question what they did on a specific job.

Now, how many of those guys do you even see here? Few, if any, I'd be willing to bet.

I've told countless guys just about this forum. How many of them do I know to be members? Two. One participates in learning discussions, while the other doesn't participate at all, except to look at Wall of Shame pictures.

Can you guess which one is the newbie who wants to learn, and which one is the veteran who "doesn't need help", but changes companies every year and a half?

These types of posts are intended to draw a line between those who own and those who are worker bees.
Not a single experienced tech. has become experienced without changing unecassary parts on occasion, if one can't admit it they are lying.
Some experienced folks know how to intellectualize there way around there failure or blame it on the next guy on the totem pole.
The day I stop learning is the day I stop breathing.
Remember not all Techs have had they blessings of training school and have had to learn by self teachings or OJT. A very high percentage of use techs have not been recepients of companies or large or small fortunes. Some have had to make a choice between working as opposed to schooling, a nice mixture would be best.
If anyone takes offense to this it is probably because that's what they are looking to get out of it.

The term "experienced technician" is pretty broad, and kinda vague. It was pointed out to me years ago that there is a difference between "10 years of experience" and "1 year of experience, repeated 10 times".

Originally Posted by y7turbo

The morning after pill.

I believe it's the medicare prescription plan as well

I have never claimed to know anything about anything. This has worked for me for many years.

I have worked with guys who have more experience than me who have less knowledge. Whatever... I call it job security. I'm sure it is frustrating for a business owner. Doesn't bother me one bit.

Originally Posted by ryan1088

Make sure you say that in an Arnold Swartzenegger voice too.

I don't know John, it's kinda the same old thing. You can't force anyone to learn that doesn't want to. The whole lead a horse to water but can't make them drink. I know a lot of these types actually. They go to classes and text, mess around, sleep or whatever then get mad when a few of us get sent to all the speciality trainings.

My boss said it pretty well the other day. You have people who live and learn, then you have others that are just living.

The guys who talk, sleep, text, etc are a$$ holes and should be called out and invited to leave, no refund, IMO. That is one of my pet peeves. The INSTRUCTOR must control their room or go do something else. But to say "experienced" tech is hard to teach is, IMO, inaccurate. A$$ holes are hard to teach.

Originally Posted by VTP99

What's plan B ?

The morning after pill.

Originally Posted by VTP99

What's plan B ?

Grow your own?

Alot of the smart, motivated people in life stayed far away from the HVAC field. They did things like med school, law school, engineering etc. Then whatever sharp ones were left, many of them started their own gig. So that leaves just a few desirable guys out there. If you want one, you usually got to pay the man to get and keep him.

Originally Posted by John Markl

is to teach or train an "experienced technician".

Why?

Because to accept said training or teaching, they must first accept or admit that they don't know something....which is too hard on their ego....because they're afraid that they might lose face with their peers.

What's plan B ?

There is a big difference in the expectations of my, your generation and what has been taking place in this country and its school system for a good number of years now.

We were taught analytical thinking or whatever anyone choses to call it. And that was and is a dicipline that is not longer taught. Now we are to rely on information that comes from external sources such as the web, factory 800 numbers, computer type systems or anything that can and will do thinking for us.

We are dinosaurs, you might as well face it. I did many years ago and have given up on hiring assistance. I only use older guys now who may or may not be mechanically inclined. But I can tell them and give them exact instructions and they always complete what I direct them to do. And they are thankful for the work AND find it very interesting. No, I don't let them near anything that could do them in until I'm sure they are safe.

Originally Posted by John Markl

But, is every "experienced technician" technically competent? Or, have large numbers of them made a career of "getting by", changing parts and guessing based on prior experience?

There is a huge difference. Yes, the true technician who craves knowledge exists...but it's been my observation (as well as the observation of many of my peers) that the vast majority of today's technicians are "experience based", instead of "technically competent".....and those experience-based guys are generally so insecure, that they're almost impossible to teach.

I know exactly what you mean by that. We have some people who couldn't use a meter to read voltage across a relay or switch.

Originally Posted by Tommy knocker

. I'll have questions and will expect answers.

Make sure you say that in an Arnold Swartzenegger voice too.

I don't know John, it's kinda the same old thing. You can't force anyone to learn that doesn't want to. The whole lead a horse to water but can't make them drink. I know a lot of these types actually. They go to classes and text, mess around, sleep or whatever then get mad when a few of us get sent to all the speciality trainings.

My boss said it pretty well the other day. You have people who live and learn, then you have others that are just living.

Originally Posted by Tommy knocker

I think you have it backwards. Experienced techs are just that. Some instructors struggle with being questioned and at times cornered on something they have not seen or considered. Experienced techs want to learn, they have to, but they want answers to questions or potential problems they foresee. I'm going to a manitowok refresher tomorrow and can't wait. I'll have questions and will expect answers.

But, is every "experienced technician" technically competent? Or, have large numbers of them made a career of "getting by", changing parts and guessing based on prior experience?

There is a huge difference. Yes, the true technician who craves knowledge exists...but it's been my observation (as well as the observation of many of my peers) that the vast majority of today's technicians are "experience based", instead of "technically competent".....and those experience-based guys are generally so insecure, that they're almost impossible to teach.

I think you have it backwards. Experienced techs are just that. Some instructors struggle with being questioned and at times cornered on something they have not seen or considered. Experienced techs want to learn, they have to, but they want answers to questions or potential problems they foresee. I'm going to a manitowok refresher tomorrow and can't wait. I'll have questions and will expect answers.