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I work to provide for my family and so does the plumber next door to me. I just recently turned down a union job, not because it was union but because it could not provide for my family like my non-union job does My plumber neighbor and every other union guy I know are getting fed up with the union. They have lost their vision coverage, dental coverage, their retirement has went down the toilet and on and on and on.

The only thing that has ever really bugged me is union guys belittling and puting down the non-union guys like they are below them and not as good. They are both doing one thing and that is called earning a living. You take what you can get.

See what I mean? So far three other posters have noticed that the OP is a union troll and dumbass decides to start crap with me.

Robo, whats the problem, he didn't say anything to make you act in that manner. Whats up, yur on a roll tonight.

The OP is a union troll just trying to stir crap. The unions are in such dire straights that they are giving up on one another, have the worst decline of workers ever and have to rely the lying likes of fat eddie (currently gruvn) to speak for them.

I too am out of here. I tried to be reasonable and the OP just tried to screw me for my efforts. Pretty typical of union recruiters.

Why th ehell would I want to start my own business ?

I am retiring, I have fifteen years to go to retire at 58, I am not going to become an owner so I can sit behind a desk til the day I die, scheduling clean and checks for little old ladies. I'm retiring never to pick up a tool again. Thats it, at 58 I'm done, it was nice it gave me a lot but I am done with it.

this topic comes up every so often and its the same whiny thread each time. I usually stay out of it and dont talk about whether im open shop or union but here goes. i run a small union shop. i carry a card and would never think about dropping it. as an owner, there are benefits to being a union shop. the biggest of those is the ability to project costs for long periods of time. right now, i know my labor cost for another thirty months or so. this includes salary, benefits, training, retirement, etc. the only variables i have are workers comp and liability. in addition, i dont need to carry men during slow times. these men are all taught that there will be ups and downs so keep some savings and prepare for the worst. in general there is plenty of year round wqork around here, but the ability to use the hall for those ups and downs helps tremendously especially in small business. these is NO SENIORITY, that is i can and do hand pick labor on an as needed basis. the men know that if they are slugs they dont work much. not very many of those around here. if i need someone to do a particualr task, i can usually get that person on 24 hours notice. there are various certifiacations and licenses that may be required to work in pharmas or industrial plants, power houses etc. i get those for free,and can hire men who already have those in place. there is an ongoing drug program also free. in short there are many benefits to me using union labor whethor or not i am holding a card.

Originally posted by 1metalman5
It seems to me that union workers complain about non-union shops and non-union workers complain about union shops. It's hard for me to believe that the current workers of these non-union shops have nothing to complain about but union's and vise-versa. I'm looking for real answers not a bitch fest. I read where pro union workers talk good about there job and complain about non-union shops but on the other hand the anti-union workers write only complaints they have about union's and no hype on where they work or whats so good about there situation. So again you tell me!

Stop being like a bitch that's what they do compare every little thing, get a job, union - non union the work is all the same, the company'e are the same.

bitch bitch bitch.

Get a job, the best you can get and stop bitching.

You need Vagisil..!!!! wah wah wah my pu$$y hurts

Originally posted by Dowadudda
I 'll just say this. I am UA. And an owner. And if I was guvn's boss, he'd be gone. Not even a blink of my eye.

So many on here want to stand on the most extreme sides of this issue. There is a lot of good that comes out of that Hall. Alot more than the ones representing the Union on here. I am nuetral as far as emotions in this arguement.

Been on both sides. I understand both sides. I wished the hell everyone in this trade could be raised up to the level we all deserve to make and be paid. This trade should be one big union, where WE. WE all can have all the good from both sides.

The problem is, you guys in the middle of it here, have to pound on your chests and divide us.

I am NON-UNION but this is a VERY WISE and TRUE quote.

Hats off to you Many D's
Yuma

Dowadude: I think you;re right. There's no perfect situation. Good and Bad in everything. Since I have very little exposure to unions I form my opionions from the comments of the people in unions. The comments seem straight out of left field. I can't relate to their mentality. They come across arrogant and pompous. But I'm sure there are a lot of balanced normal people in unions.

But I tell you, If I had to turn into someone like a GRUVN to be in a union, I don't know what I'd do.

I 'll just say this. I am UA. And an owner. And if I was guvn's boss, he'd be gone. Not even a blink of my eye.

So many on here want to stand on the most extreme sides of this issue. There is a lot of good that comes out of that Hall. Alot more than the ones representing the Union on here. I am nuetral as far as emotions in this arguement.

Been on both sides. I understand both sides. I wished the hell everyone in this trade could be raised up to the level we all deserve to make and be paid. This trade should be one big union, where WE. WE all can have all the good from both sides.

The problem is, you guys in the middle of it here, have to pound on your chests and divide us.

Originally posted by 1metalman5
If what you say is true then we would all be owners and we would have no workers and no work. Some of us don't have the luck to be able to own a business so your story is unfair for others to compair to. The majority of us try to make do with what we have and we are always looking for ways to make it better.

There is no luck involved. I wish it were, than I wouldn't have to bust my ass for it.

Been here. Done this.

What a waste of energy.

Don't know why I'm even wasting the energy replying to this thread.....bye.

If what you say is true then we would all be owners and we would have no workers and no work. Some of us don't have the luck to be able to own a business so your story is unfair for others to compair to. The majority of us try to make do with what we have and we are always looking for ways to make it better.

Being from the South, never been in or had to compete with Union other than my ancestors fightin the blue coats. WHen I started out as a maintenance man in late teens and early 20's I worked hourly, had vacation days, sick days, etc. I found that I adopted a certain hard to describe mentality. Maybe the word "dependent" is the right work. When I got laid off during a slow period I blamed the company. The Cubans would have called me a "come-mierda"

After that I started out working as a refrigeration tech for a small company but on a straight commission basis. I provided tools, truck, etc. but for a commission. I could take vacation anytime I wanted as long as it wasn't the 5 month busy season.

I learned that being independant and not subjecting myself to the whims of others was the most important thing for a man. If I did good I prospered, if I was lazy I failed.

Later I opened my own business with my meager savings and sweat. After a few years it has reached the level that I feel comfortable. I'm still a slave but I make the rules, fight my battles, and I have to live or die by them. I have no one to blame for bad decisions other than myself.

I don't think I could ever accept the pack mentality of a Union. The us against them mentality. The greedy coorporation versus the little man mentality. I don't need an organization to take up for me like a big brother. That is emasculating. I could never accept a job where you are not judged by what you produce or how talented you are but by "seniority".

IMHO Unions were once necessary but I question the validity of them these days. I'm sure that a lot of Union techs are better than I am. But I'm sure that I accomplish 10 times more with my limited knowledge.

BTW I WILL wrap duct if I had to. I'll do what it takes to get the job done and provide for my family.

BTW I never have to brag about how many vacation days I get. I get as many as I want. The other year, the summer was so good that I practically took off the fall and winter except for phone conversations. I worked maybe 10-15 hours a week.

If someone offered me TWICE the salary and benefits of GRUVN I wouldn't trade it for I have. I would like to see GRUVN try to open up a company and succeed at it. He could brag to the customers about how smart he is and how nobody is as good a tech as he. Of course he wouldn't do the work that was required because he might have to insulate ductwork and then he would turn it down and beneath his skill level.

yep you guys pegged that one. If that wasnt and advertizment for joining the union, I dont know what would be. He is definatly a troll for advocating the union. I have been on boths sides of the table so I can see both having there good points. I just never liked the scummy tactics some of the radical union guys used such as pulling ladders to strand non union guys on roofes. But then I always thought union shops had a little better training being your having a lot of guys at the training classes for union as compared to small shops trying to just do in house with what little training material you have. Like I say Im not advocating one or the other, I would rather work for a shop that I liked the people Im working with. lol I liked OUTSIDES coment on the backstabbing......so true lol.

[Edited by dec on 09-21-2005 at 02:39 PM]

You have already been told to go with what will be in your best interest in the location where you will be working. What is it you are trying to achieve? You have already stated your opinion, so go with it.

It seems to me that union workers complain about non-union shops and non-union workers complain about union shops. It's hard for me to believe that the current workers of these non-union shops have nothing to complain about but union's and vise-versa. I'm looking for real answers not a bitch fest. I read where pro union workers talk good about there job and complain about non-union shops but on the other hand the anti-union workers write only complaints they have about union's and no hype on where they work or whats so good about there situation. So again you tell me!

Overall I just make a lot of money and benefits for not really doing a whole lot, I get paid for what I am able to do, not what I actually do.


This says it all. Maybe you can do something, but not doing it makes no money for the owner.

Originally posted by outside rep

Originally posted by gruvn
My name is Gruvn, I don't know anyone named Ed

Everyone thinks you are I never new him either but from what I have seen in the past year here its not a good label to get.

I think they call everyone an Eddy, if they act in a undesirable manner. So if you don't act or talk as they would like you to then they label you as an Eddy, I guess.

Originally posted by boiler boy
let the lazy 6 month a year i willnot insulate ductwork fill out a ap. for me when he is hungry or sick due to no bennies he can answer his own question. UNION NEVER HAVE NEVER WILL.

Yes you wouldn't catch me insulating ductwork.

And don't worry I won't be filing out any apps at your place any time soon,

Let me give you a vrief overview of what a good union job is like,

My duties,and average typical day, 2hours DDC logic programming, 2 hours phone, two hours driving and talking with the other guys,then some sales.

For this massive effort, I receive

7 dollars an hour over the rate,

Commission for sales paid in hourly wage with benefits paid on those hours, ( this really pumps up the annuity and retirement bennies)

Excellent health care for my family, I pay 10 dollar visits and 3 dollars for prescription, with very few limitations,

Eye care, I get a 480.00 pair of glasses every year for 58 dollars out of pocket, my family is entitiled to this also.

I get dental , its not great but it covers routine maintenance and 50% of major.

I have two pension plans and an annuity,

( Annuity = like a 401K but a little better)

I have the freedom to move around the country and make about the same anywhere in the country ( huge network)

I recieve excellent training through the hall and hrough my employer, because I have proven to be a good investment.

I get only good high profile accounts, ( I don't see much junk)

I get a new company truck with a gas card, with the understanding that I may use it as I wish.I get paid to maintain it. that means washing and getting oil changed on company time and them paying for it. soap and all.

I get a company credit card, for those oddball places that you need once in a blue moon.

I get 8 holidays

I get three weeks vacation paid

I get a lot free time to ghost

(ghost time = unaccounted time, that I take care of personal stuff with during working hours)

Gravy overtime at 1.5 my rate,

Gravy overtime at 2.0 my rate

Overall I just make a lot of money and benefits for not really doing a whole lot, I get paid for what I am able to do, not what I actually do.

I get offers for comparable packages all the time, so Boiler Boy even if you could match this ( ha ha ha ), you would still have to get in line and send me an invite to see me in your office for an interview. Actually when I interview for a place of employment, it is me asking the questions and determining if I want to be there rather than what you are thinking.

Oh and I forgot my Hall offers a free accounting service to helo me sort out all this stuff at the end of the year. It is truly a great bennie, because it gets complicated when you get over the one hundred thousand mark.