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Originally Posted by Duttydutdut

Funny I always imagine myself here....


http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=860

My wife gets mad if I even think about going there.

Originally Posted by the dangling wrangler

I try to visualize myself here,whenever I'm in an attic, or on a roof.



http://www.barefootsworld.net/sweatlodge.html

Funny I always imagine myself here....


http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=860

From another board. A little off topic but, still aviation related.
I think it's a cool story.



There were a lot of things we couldn't do in an SR-71, but we were the fastest guys on the block and loved reminding our fellow aviators of this fact. People often asked us if, because of this fact, it was fun to fly the jet. Fun would not be the first word I would use to describe flying this plane. Intense, maybe. Even cerebral. But there was one day in our Sled experience when we would have to say that it was pure fun to be the fastest guys out there, at least for a moment.

It occurred when Walt and I were flying our final training sortie. We needed 100 hours in the jet to complete our training and attain Mission Ready status. Somewhere over Colorado we had passed the century mark. We had made the turn in Arizona and the jet was performing flawlessly. My gauges were wired in the front seat and we were starting to feel pretty good about ourselves, not only because we would soon be flying real missions but because we had gained a great deal of confidence in the plane in the past ten months. Ripping across the barren deserts 80,000 feet below us, I could already see the coast of California from the Arizona border. I was, finally, after many humbling months of simulators and study, ahead of the jet.

I was beginning to feel a bit sorry for Walter in the back seat. There he was, with no really good view of the incredible sights before us, tasked with monitoring four different radios. This was good practice for him for when we began flying real missions, when a priority transmission from headquarters could be vital. It had been difficult, too, for me to relinquish control of the radios, as during my entire flying career I had controlled my own transmissions. But it was part of the division of duties in this plane and I had adjusted to it. I still insisted on talking on the radio while we were on the ground, however.

Walt was so good at many things, but he couldn't match my expertise at sounding smooth on the radios, a skill that had been honed sharply with years in fighter squadrons where the slightest radio miscue was grounds for beheading. He understood that and allowed me that luxury. Just to get a sense of what Walt had to contend with, I pulled the radio toggle switches and monitored the frequencies along with him. The predominant radio chatter was from Los Angeles Center, far below us, controlling daily traffic in their sector. While they had us on their scope (albeit briefly), we were in uncontrolled airspace and normally would not talk to them unless we needed to descend into their airspace.

We listened as the shaky voice of a lone Cessna pilot asked Center for a readout of his ground speed.

Center replied: "November Charlie 175, I'm showing you at ninety knots on the ground."

Now the thing to understand about Center controllers, was that whether they were talking to a rookie pilot in a Cessna, or to Air Force One, they always spoke in the exact same, calm, deep, professional, tone that made one feel important. I referred to it as the "HoustonCenterVoice." I have always felt that after years of seeing documentaries on this country's space program and listening to the calm and distinct voice of the HoustonCenterControllers, that all other controllers since then wanted to sound like that...
and that they basically did. And it didn't matter what sector of the country we would be flying in, it always seemed like the same guy was talking. Over the years that tone of voice had become somewhat of a comforting sound to pilots everywhere. Conversely, over the years, pilots always wanted to ensure that, when transmitting, they sounded like Chuck Yeager, or at least like John Wayne. Better to die than sound bad on the radios.

Just moments after the Cessna's inquiry, a Twin Beech piped up on frequency, in a rather superior tone, asking for his ground speed.

"Ah, Twin Beach: I have you at one hundred and twenty-five knots of ground speed."

Boy, I thought, the Beechcraft really must think he is dazzling his Cessna brethren.

Then out of the blue, a Navy F-18 pilot out of NAS Lemoore came up on frequency. You knew right away it was a Navy jock because he sounded very cool on the radios.

"Center, Dusty 52 ground speed check."

Before Center could reply, I'm thinking to myself, hey, Dusty 52 has a ground speed indicator in that million dollar cockpit, so why is he asking Center for a readout? Then I got it -- ol' Dusty here is making sure that every bug smasher from Mount Whitney to the Mojave knows what true speed is. He's the fastest dude in the valley today, and he just wants everyone to know how much fun he is having in his new Hornet.

And the reply, always with that same, calm, voice, with more distinct alliteration than emotion:

"Dusty 52, Center, we have you at 620 on the ground."

And I thought to myself, is this a ripe situation, or what?
As my hand instinctively reached for the mic button, I had to remind myself that Walt was in control of the radios.
Still, I thought, it must be done -- in mere seconds we'll be out of the sector and the opportunity will be lost. That Hornet must die, and die now.

I thought about all of our Sim training and how important it was that we developed well as a crew and knew that to jump in on the radios now would destroy the integrity of all that we had worked toward becoming. I was torn. Somewhere, 13 miles above Arizona, there was a pilot screaming inside his space helmet.

Then, I heard it. The click of the mic button from the back seat. That was the very moment that I knew Walter and I had become a crew. Very professionally, and with no emotion, Walter spoke: "Los Angeles Center, Aspen 20, can you give us a ground speed check?"

There was no hesitation, and the reply came as if was an everyday request: "Aspen 20, I show you at one thousand eight hundred and forty-two knots, across the ground."

I think it was the forty-two knots that I liked the best, so accurate and proud was Center to deliver that information without hesitation, and you just knew he was smiling. But the precise point at which I knew that Walt and I were going to be really good friends for a long time was when he keyed the mic once again to say, in his most fighter-pilot-like voice: "Ah, Center, much thanks. We're showing closer to nineteen hundred on the money."

For a moment Walter was a god. And we finally heard a little crack in the armor of the HoustonCenterVoice, when L.A. came back with, "Roger that Aspen, Your equipment is probably more accurate than ours. You boys have a good one."

It all had lasted for just moments, but in that short, memorable sprint across the southwest, the Navy had been flamed, all mortal airplanes on freq were forced to bow before the King of Speed, and more importantly, Walter and I had crossed the threshold of being a crew. A fine day's work.

We never heard another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast. For just one day, it truly was fun being the fastest guys out there.

Written by Brian Shul, from his book Sled Driver.

Find a reputable tech school to attend. I did 16 years ago and it was my best ROI so far. At first the trade is a "school of hard Knocks" but once you gain some experience it's not that bad. The pay will come with time. It's also very portable! You can go just about anywhere and find work. The trade also has some variety... I've done residential, commercial, industrial, controls, comm. kitchen equipment, etc...

Originally Posted by TPoz

Hi Everyone.
I'm an airline pilot about to lose my job along with 10,000 + others. No airlines are hiring, and wont be for approximately 4 years. I need to learn a new trade in the mean time, and preferrably as a side-line when I get back to an airline job someday.

I've been wrenching on my own apartment units for years, but it would be nice to know HVAC to become a pro apartment manager myself...

I am considering an HVAC school to learn a new trade, but I want to chose wisely.

1. I live in the San Francisco Bay area. Are the prospects good for work there? .

2. What is a good school. Online vs local Jr College?

Appreciate any serious advice,
Thanks,

And don't let your kids grow up to be pilots....and if they insist, learn a trade too !!

Good advice for the kids, I agree.

Were you taken in by the "impending pilot shortage" from outfits like Air Inc? A lot of us were.

I miss flying the Lears, but this is a good trade, you are home every night, never sit reserve, and you have none of the unpredictability of 135 flying, either.

trade

this trade u learn ,not just hvac,,but alot of other things.

I stumbled on this thread. I'm a former pilot too and part time HVAC. I did HVAC full time though when I was in college but got into other things. Good luck though.

Originally Posted by TPoz

Hi Everyone.
I'm an airline pilot about to lose my job along with 10,000 + others. No airlines are hiring, and wont be for approximately 4 years. I need to learn a new trade in the mean time, and preferrably as a side-line when I get back to an airline job someday.

I've been wrenching on my own apartment units for years, but it would be nice to know HVAC to become a pro apartment manager myself...

I am considering an HVAC school to learn a new trade, but I want to chose wisely.

1. I live in the San Francisco Bay area. Are the prospects good for work there? .

2. What is a good school. Online vs local Jr College?

Appreciate any serious advice,
Thanks,

And don't let your kids grow up to be pilots....and if they insist, learn a trade too !!

Across the bay is ABC all bay cities as I recall when I worked there in the mid 70's they are a very good company maybe they will let you apprentice with a journeyman while you get your training.

yeh, this trade is a good. there's no snow in nor. cal though, and the bay area has mother nature supplying the cooling so you might get slow. As for school go union and get that free. The bay area locals are cool from what i understand. just understand service guys are cocky, don't trust anybody and tell everybody your a family guy. if your a hippy w/ dreads, shave the dreads and tell everybody you like elvis.

Originally Posted by TPoz

Hi Everyone.
I'm an airline pilot about to lose my job along with 10,000 + others. No airlines are hiring, and wont be for approximately 4 years. I need to learn a new trade in the mean time, and preferrably as a side-line when I get back to an airline job someday.

I've been wrenching on my own apartment units for years, but it would be nice to know HVAC to become a pro apartment manager myself...

I am considering an HVAC school to learn a new trade, but I want to chose wisely.

1. I live in the San Francisco Bay area. Are the prospects good for work there? .

2. What is a good school. Online vs local Jr College?

Appreciate any serious advice,
Thanks,

And don't let your kids grow up to be pilots....and if they insist, learn a trade too !!

TPoz,
So what did you figure out. Will you pursue the HVAC trade?

Originally Posted by TPoz

Hi Everyone.
I'm an airline pilot about to lose my job along with 10,000 + others. No airlines are hiring, and wont be for approximately 4 years. I need to learn a new trade in the mean time, and preferrably as a side-line when I get back to an airline job someday.

I've been wrenching on my own apartment units for years, but it would be nice to know HVAC to become a pro apartment manager myself...

I am considering an HVAC school to learn a new trade, but I want to chose wisely.

1. I live in the San Francisco Bay area. Are the prospects good for work there? .

2. What is a good school. Online vs local Jr College?

Appreciate any serious advice,
Thanks,

And don't let your kids grow up to be pilots....and if they insist, learn a trade too !!

i would have to go with a hands on school...i attend EVEREST INST. and im bout to finish and i love it...the BEST decision iv ever made...!! GL and have fun but be careful

CityWide Service,

You need to move, I think you are in the Twilight Zone.
Either that, or you have positioned yourself with the bottom feeders.
I will agree with you, there are quite a few companies that pay their employees poorly, these employees are basically labor. By labor I mean these folks work for money only, they dream of getting off work and having a beer.

There is a rule in business called the 80, 20 rule. 20% of the employees of any company do 80% of the work. The 80% try to fly under the radar hoping their boss won't notice what total slackers they are. These 80% are low paid, and are the first to be laid off.

Now let me tell you something that might freak you out, I never hire folks that are unemployed. If you hire the unemployed, you hire an 80%'er.
All hacks are 80%'ers. Like I said in my previous post "Make yourself indispensable" you will see your pay rocket to the top.

I too have a love hate relationship with this business. Lately it has been mostly love, as all this new "Green" technology hits the market. This Green is going to make our industry rake in the Green, this is yet another chance to become indispensable in the market place.

Originally Posted by citywide service

Preface this by saying I have not read the first part of this thread but.....


If I had it to do over again I WOULD NOT have gone into HVAC. The wages (for the most part) are so low you can not support a family and there usually is no benefits.

My area (midwest) pays a 10+ yr service tech an average of 12-15 dollars an hour, no truck to drive home, no health benefits and on call 1 week per month minimum with no compensation other than the O.T. for the calls...all this to usually get laid off during the "slow periods". Happens all the time here and they get away with it! Now you know why there are so many "hacks"! (Translation: Guys trying to get by).

Had I to do it over again I would have gone to sparky school...those guys can make the money man!


Just my opinion...


CW.

A lot of this is caused by low balling contractors selling units over the internet just above cost......

TPoz:

What an interesting twist. I hold a private / instrument ticket (non-current BFR & medical) (no time). I'd donate body several body parts to sit left seat and get paid for it!! This is a crazy world we live in and even crazier times in America. By the way, I also intensely LOVE and intensely HATE this industry.

Your questions certainly cover a lot of ground. If you are looking for a stop-gap to go back to flying, then don't do this. It will take you a lot longer to get really good than four years. The apprenticeship programs would be your "best" start, but in most areas, the backlogs are pretty large. Like aviation, if you want to get ahead, then be the best. Seek information, training, experience beyond what your schooling requires. Ask, watch, observe, critique, LEARN, LEARN, LEARN.

My son has worked with me ocassionally since he was young. At a benchmark point in his life he asked me to teach him HVAC. My first reaction was NO, I love you; I can't do this to you. After a lot of talks, he elected to join the electrical apprenticeship program, and it is working very well for him.

The day I got my private ticket, my CFI held me by the shoulders, and said "This is a license to learn. Keep scanning, keep your eyes open, and if you ever think you have arrived, stop flying." There are a lot of 400 hr comm'l pilots out there, but weigh what you know and have experienced against them. HVAC is the same. Proficiency counts, and only comes with experience. Best of luck with your next chapter in life.

I love what I do. I was born to do this, I think. You meet all kinds of people and get good at dealing with them and learn something new each day. No two days are alike. Psycobilly said it right about being hot and cold and tired, though. Every place I go, the air/heat is broken, and it's busy when the weather says it is!

yea Joe

Originally Posted by Joe Harper

I have to say, your outlook on things suck..

I make good money, and drive my truck home. There is always something to do if you are thorough and keeping your eyes open. The hacks get laid off all the time beacuse they are hacks. Why keep a bad technician on the payroll when he cant do good work? You might be working for the wrong company.

some good words in this thread like making yourself invaluable to your co. by being able to do anything they throw at u , especially the stuff the others will not or cannot do. be your boss' "go to" guy... But i like what u said about keeping your eyes open , i call that concept being proactive , not only focusing on the one problem at hand but the whole picture. Don't tell me that every mechanical room u work in dosen,'t have a leaking pump , plugged motor overheating , static press too low inna boiler circuit , etc... to suggest to the cust. I'd get extra work almost every day that way. hone your communication skills and talk to these people , you'll be surprised at the amt. of work you can drum up. I never ask for a raise in my whole career , i always got merit raises by applying the above way of servicing , remember , proactive habits will get u where u need to go in this trade..............Jack

Originally Posted by citywide service

Preface this by saying I have not read the first part of this thread but.....


If I had it to do over again I WOULD NOT have gone into HVAC. The wages (for the most part) are so low you can not support a family and there usually is no benefits.

My area (midwest) pays a 10+ yr service tech an average of 12-15 dollars an hour, no truck to drive home, no health benefits and on call 1 week per month minimum with no compensation other than the O.T. for the calls...all this to usually get laid off during the "slow periods". Happens all the time here and they get away with it! Now you know why there are so many "hacks"! (Translation: Guys trying to get by).

Had I to do it over again I would have gone to sparky school...those guys can make the money man!


Just my opinion...


CW.

I have to say, your outlook on things suck..

I make good money, and drive my truck home. There is always something to do if you are thorough and keeping your eyes open. The hacks get laid off all the time beacuse they are hacks. Why keep a bad technician on the payroll when he cant do good work? You might be working for the wrong company.

Preface this by saying I have not read the first part of this thread but.....


If I had it to do over again I WOULD NOT have gone into HVAC. The wages (for the most part) are so low you can not support a family and there usually is no benefits.

My area (midwest) pays a 10+ yr service tech an average of 12-15 dollars an hour, no truck to drive home, no health benefits and on call 1 week per month minimum with no compensation other than the O.T. for the calls...all this to usually get laid off during the "slow periods". Happens all the time here and they get away with it! Now you know why there are so many "hacks"! (Translation: Guys trying to get by).

Had I to do it over again I would have gone to sparky school...those guys can make the money man!


Just my opinion...


CW.

Let me give you some advice given to me by my father. Whatever position you end up in, make yourself indispensable.

As a father in these modern times I passed that advice on to my children, but I also added in my advice "whatever you do just don't Suck at it" and you will make a good living, maybe even get rich.

I am not saying that I am some knight in shining armor, but 80% or more of what I see done in the mechanical trades in my area is done by folks who work only for money, and hate their jobs. These folks run from every challenge, they just want to hump a new unit into place and have no care if their work adds any value to the customer.

10 years ago I stopped all advertising, not one of our trucks is lettered, and I don't have a web page. My phone rings about 30 times a day, I get 99.9% of all my sales.
We are in most cases the highest bidder or the only bidder, my suppliers are paid instantly.
We never return any material unless the supplier made the mistake.

Most days I really love to go to work, especially when I walk into a call that 5 other guys gave up on. I know when I fix that unit the customer will not care how much I charge them, and that is good.

Btw, if I walk into a property that has an install like the ones I see on the "wall of shame"
I will quote the rip out the entire job and redo it or I will walk away from the customer.

So if you want to get into HVAC just to have security, then just don't suck and you will have it. I personally could not work for anyone, I have in the past, but couldn't get any satisfaction in doing half a s s work, and going behind an installer that needs a bullet.

deal with it????????

Originally Posted by PSYCHOBILLY

I also love this trade.
And it gets very hot on the roofs here during the summer. Sometimes up to 150*f on a day without any wind. You learn to deal with it. And kinda get used to it. When me and my buddies are at the lake and they say its hot, I laugh and say its nice outside.

how do you learn to deal with those conditions , i read a trade paper on working in Vegas and it said you have to wear long sleeves , start early inna a.m. and drink a ton of water as you lose it so fast u don't even sweat. True???????? and that was for the install guys , we service techs can't control what part of the day calls come in .............Jack