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Originally Posted by minimoose

I hope someone can assist me with the following:

We are in South Africa and absorption chillers are still very new for us.

Could you possibly advise me on any good and bad experience you have had with absorption chillers with lithium bromide?

As there are a few companies to choose from (Broad, Trane, York, Sanyo), we are not sure how to go about choosing a company, what suggestions would you make?

What are the most common problems experienced with these products?


Thanks

You probably need to start a thread with this question as the topic if you want as much response as possible.

As far as absorbers, they're like anything else - there's good and bad to all. I don't have a lot of personal experience with anything other than the York machines, and they do pretty well, especially the 2 stage. No matter who builds it, an absorber is maintenance intensive, but if you look after them and keep them tight, they'll last a long time and make a lot of cold water. If you learn what makes 'em tick, they're really good as a source of job security, too.

help needed

I hope someone can assist me with the following:

We are in South Africa and absorption chillers are still very new for us.

Could you possibly advise me on any good and bad experience you have had with absorption chillers with lithium bromide?

As there are a few companies to choose from (Broad, Trane, York, Sanyo), we are not sure how to go about choosing a company, what suggestions would you make?

What are the most common problems experienced with these products?


Thanks

I've just joined, so forgive me if this has been mentioned but in the UK it is now illegal to use virgin R123 and only recycled R123 is allowed for topping up systems. This has been the case since January 2010.

There are pro's and con's to all machines. At my previous job, which was at a semiconductor plant for 15 years, I was responsible for all repairs, and maintenance of 27 centrifugals. Carrier 19XL,19EX, Trane CVHE, CVHF, and York YT, 450 ton thru 2000 ton. We also had 30 or so 200-400 ton screws, McQuay ALSA, Mycom 60's, and Trane RTAA, and RTAC. The only destructive failure I had in those 15 yrs was the Trane CVHE1250 ton which had a rotor bar issue, which has been an issue for Trane. As run hours increased open and inspects began on all. All but one of the Carriers had bearings out of spec after 25K-30K run hours. The 19EX mostly had issues with condenser tube failures. We had the most compressor failures on the ALS A vintage for obvious reasons, and RTAA's that we used on a 0 degree F glycol system. The latest additions to the plant just prior to me leaving 2 yrs ago were two Trane CVHF1750 chillers. Great KW/ton, but on one of them the fluid pump was seized on start up, and that machine has had two thrust bearings replaced since start up 2 years ago. One by Trane techs while labor was in warranty, and the second by in house tech. The York YT's, even with the latest greatest bellows shaft seal configuration still have issues with leaks, but they do great with low condenser water temps, and are simple to overhaul. R123 is going away, but don't underestimate the lobbyists to keep it around as long as possible.

At least Trane doesn't have a shaft seal that you have to wrestle the local OEM office for the part number of. But I bet they sell 75 dollar a gallon Oil 22 that is really 4GS.

Originally Posted by ice_cube_30

TRANE,TRANE,TRANE,TRANE. Best chillers in the country. R123 going away might happen, might not, my guess is not. We are still producing it selling it and plan to keep on selling it. Bottom line is if you want a great chiller buy a trane.

R-123 is a great refrigerant, but it's going away.

the german brand you might be refering to is Bitzer. Right now they are starting to produce them right in Syracuse NY, Right down the road from Carrier designed by some of the same people who designed carriers units.

the rtaa.,cvhe and f., all the way

TRANE,TRANE,TRANE,TRANE. Best chillers in the country. R123 going away might happen, might not, my guess is not. We are still producing it selling it and plan to keep on selling it. Bottom line is if you want a great chiller buy a trane.

Originally Posted by kwhit

Could you please send me a copy of this article?

Done! Please feel free to share your opinions and thoughts after you read it.

Originally Posted by ChillerWisperer

R-123 isn't scheduled for phaseout until January 2030

http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/..._phaseout.html

Recently the japs version of AC/R News (JARN) interviewed Dr. Stephen Andersen of the EPA and his comments highlight the phaseout of R-134A prior to R-123. He points out that even though 123 has a greater ODP, it is a moot point because chillers using it are zero emission. With sufficient quantities being manufactured until 2030 and the fact that very little is lost during normal operation and maintenance, there will be plenty of 123 for years to come after 2030. In addition to that, the EPA will let manufacturers of 123 produce beyond the 2030 phaseout by using ODP unit credits gained by the conversion or decomissioning of R-11 chillers and destroying the R-11. For every two pounds of 11 destroyed, they can produce one pound of 123.

I think Trane made the right gamble by sticking with R-123. They are now the sole manufacturers of a low pressure machine that will likely outlast a lot of the 134A machines being produced by York, Carrier and McQuay. Add to that the inherent efficiency advantage over 134A and it should give them dominance in the market.

I wish I could attach the article here, but it's about 3mb in pdf format. If anyone wants it, let me know and I will email it to you.

Could you please send me a copy of this article?

[QUOTE=ChillerWisperer;4635092]What empirical data do you base your facts on, or is it just an opinion based on anecdotal observations and hearsay evidence?[/QUOTE


I'm fine with opinion in this case. I certainly wouldnt go to an internet message board if I was seeking specific facts. I just want to see if there is a brand that is clearly preferred. If 78 of 100 all see that "X" brand is best; there's usually a reason.

Since jci bought York and I/R bought Trane, I don't know that I'd want either one of 'em.

Originally Posted by LyJoDrFk

If your company production depends on it, go York, specially if your are selecting water cooled equipment, if you run a Department Store or any other comfort cooling application go with the others. In our area we have a lot of Pharmaceutical sites, 80% are York, that should tell you something!!

What empirical data do you base your facts on, or is it just an opinion based on anecdotal observations and hearsay evidence?

If your company production depends on it, go York, specially if your are selecting water cooled equipment, if you run a Department Store or any other comfort cooling application go with the others. In our area we have a lot of Pharmaceutical sites, 80% are York, that should tell you something!!

Originally Posted by Marvolus

Thanks Brooklyntech! I see you as many others seem to like Trane. Would this be because they are easy to repair or they seldom need repair (sorry, I have to ask). I've heard many respond from a tech perspective; how about the consumer?

You know you never said what kind of equipment you have. You also never elaborated on what kind of parts are supposed to be obselete, on your chillers?

Trane is user friendly. Great technical supportn parts availability + quality trained mechanics. Nothing wrong with other brands. Just preference. Someguys like Ford, others Chevy, me I'm a Dodge man. Long live 69 Charger.

Chiller Brands

Originally Posted by brooklyntech

Try getting prices from JCI lately? Like pulling teeth. As far as machines-TRANE. Hands down, whether its from Clarksville, Pueblo, Lacrosse, Macon or from the always secretive "Yellow Rock"- TRANE hands down. Its my pleasure to work on Trane Equipment. Heres my ranking(for what its worth):
1. Trane
2. York
3. Carrier
4. Arctic Chill (makes a nice modular chiller- nice to work on, except for the plated heat exchangers-thats another thread)
5. McQuay

Thanks Brooklyntech! I see you as many others seem to like Trane. Would this be because they are easy to repair or they seldom need repair (sorry, I have to ask). I've heard many respond from a tech perspective; how about the consumer?

I'm not going to push a product on you but air cooled chillers are packaged you're going to have winners and loosers with all manufactures. As an engineer you should know to look at the numbers. Luckily you're under 250 Tons so the ARI data provided should be certified and not an expected or calculated performance values.

I don't know where you're located and I don't know you're system. I'm assuming most of the time you're going to be in a partload condition which would lead you to look at higher partload machine. Oh and always buy the 5 compressor warranty.

Try getting prices from JCI lately? Like pulling teeth. As far as machines-TRANE. Hands down, whether its from Clarksville, Pueblo, Lacrosse, Macon or from the always secretive "Yellow Rock"- TRANE hands down. Its my pleasure to work on Trane Equipment. Heres my ranking(for what its worth):
1. Trane
2. York
3. Carrier
4. Arctic Chill (makes a nice modular chiller- nice to work on, except for the plated heat exchangers-thats another thread)
5. McQuay