Reply to Thread

Originally Posted by jnaas2

Since I have a freon detector and combustible gas leak detector Im ready to work on these units

Ask the manufacturer first before relying on them. Legitimate drop-ins such as 438A and 422B have about 3% hydrocarbon for oil return aid and they might set off a false alarm.

Originally Posted by ECtofix

The only units legally using flammable refrigerants are certain SMALL domestic and commercial refrigeration units that came from the factory as such. Otherwise, if you happen to discover any equipment NOT designed for these flammable refrigerants, but discover that someone put some in it, I advise not touching it. NO HVAC units are LEGAL with that stuff in them.

Certification training can be gotten from RSES and manufacturers of the LEGAL HC-based refrigeration units.

Rural King Frost 22a hasn't specifically been named on FBI program but the fact that it is available in walk-in store is a tremendous concern.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/vi...e-refrigerants

I read another tech's post on a different forum that he picked up a landlord client who said their rentals used unconventional special refrigerant called "Environment something 22A" 30 freaking unit apartment building with highly flammable hydrocarbon explosive refrigerant charged units! Who wants anything to do with that?

This is an ultimate what if situation. What would happen if a building is on fire and there's 30 three pound sealed jugs of propane sitting on the roof?

The problem is that there's no guidance in place to deal with this type of dangerous situation. What would do you do when you find cracked heat exchangers? I think same procedures apply.

You don't have the right tools and training to work in potentially explosive environment. If you work on it and something happens, it's on you. If you do nothing and something happens, it could be on you for not acting according to professional duty.

With that much dangerous stuff and people's life are at stake, this is perhaps the one situation when you walk and call code enforcement/AHJ to report possible Life health and safety violation, IMC 1104.3.2 rental units with A3 flammable refrigerant. Declined to service after told by landlord that he has 30 rental units having AC systems filled with highly flammable product called ES-22a (or Frost 22a or Duracool Coolant Express Redtek or whatever...) and labeled Liquefied Petroleum Gas UN 1075

I'm sure they'll figure out a way to deal with it. ATF, bomb squad, whatever, but by not touching it and reporting it, you passed the problem onto the AHJ to deal with.

Originally Posted by jnaas2

Since I have a freon detector and combustible gas leak detector Im ready to work on these units

The only units legally using flammable refrigerants are certain SMALL domestic and commercial refrigeration units that came from the factory as such. Otherwise, if you happen to discover any equipment NOT designed for these flammable refrigerants, but discover that someone put some in it, I advise not touching it. NO HVAC units are LEGAL with that stuff in them.

Certification training can be gotten from RSES and manufacturers of the LEGAL HC-based refrigeration units.

Sent from my HTC One Max using Tapatalk

Since I have a freon detector and combustible gas leak detector Im ready to work on these units

Originally Posted by Freightshaker

Local huge farm store runs frontpage addin their flyer. Great big

"Why Switch from the Traditional R22 Refrigerants
Do it Yourself!
No license Required
Use up to 40% less
Lower operating costs
Less heaed pressure, extremely efficient
Non-ozone depleting product
Non-Toxic, Non-Carcinogen - No Long Term health Risks
Compatible with Mineral & Synthetic (Ester & Pag) Lubricants
Proven Results
Classified as Pharmaceutical Grade
Government phasing out traditional R22
Made in USA
Equivalent to 30 lbs of HCFC R22"
###############
Awesome huh. now we are getting emails from our safety. Now our resi guys have to question homeowners. I'm sure light commercial will be running rampant with this stuff. Light commercial seems to produce the most hackery around here. I bet they were loading skids into beatup pickups.

They were bold enough to advertise directly to consumer as a handy DIY problem solver product with the expectation that they do not possess expertise.

While I'm no legal expert, I think there's a case for property damage claim when the manufacturer and vendor knew or should have known it will cause damage, but did not disclose it. Those fuel line magnet thing is a waste of money, ineffective but mostly harmless and easy to undo. Using hydrocarbon based consumer refrigerant product can make a system that worked ok but possibly low on charge into a code violation that is no longer fit for use until the violation is corrected.

If adding Frost 22a cause the system to become a violation of IMC 1104.3.2 and no longer legal to operate, I'd think that the cost of professional assistance needed to reverse the violation to make it legal is a valid damage claim.

Maybe you can add it, but since venting exemption on HC does not extend to non SNAP approved substitutes, the proper removal of 22a requires professional service.

Unlike someone who goes against common good judgment and do things like adding Blue Rhino ito his A/C, this type of product mislead the consumer about the hazards and enticed them into doing something illegal.

when some fool adds barbecue propane into his A/C system, nobody trickled him into it and its common knowledge that danger extremely flammable fuel gas burns. "natural environmentally friendly 2nd generation hydrocarbon high efficiency refrigerant" is not common sense knowledge of extreme flammability.

If auto parts store blasted an ad for horsepower boost kit consisting of a metal pipe, a saw zall jig, clamps and an instruction manual detailing how to chop the round thing with some ceramic sponge thing in it and replace it with the pipe in the kit, I'd say there's a good chance the parts shop/kit manufacturer is liable for the repair cost to bring that vehicle legal again. it's not hard to prove doing exactly as said in instructions caused the damage.

IMC is nationally recognized and adopted by most states. It is not some unusual ordinance used by very few towns.

As of July 9, 2014 they are still selling Frost 22a at Rural King

Other sellers on ebay of a brand called Frostycool 22a says:

Attention United States Customers:

Do Not order 22a products if the intended use is in a Central Residential or Central Commercial Air Conditioning System. Allowable uses can be determined by reviewing the regulations below or visiting the E.P.A website. In the United States the E.P.A. (Environmental Protection Agency) regulations state that it is illegal to use any hydrocarbon refrigerant and/or FrostyCool 22a refrigerant in a Central Residential or Central Commercial Air Conditioning System. FrostyCool 22a will be discontinued and not available for Sale in the United States as of July 31, 2014.

Originally Posted by jdwendling

It's a R22 replacement. HCFC

No, just HC, no FC

Originally Posted by jdwendling

It's a R22 replacement. HCFC

So its already subject to phase down.

It's a R22 replacement. HCFC

Originally Posted by jdwendling

As far as I know Opening an A/C system requires certification.

Only on CFC and HCFC refrigerants. HFC, and FC refrigerants don't require EPA certification. Thats why anyone can buy R134A or R410A.

"Non-Toxic, Non-Carcinogen - No Long Term health Risks"..... Does this include health risks due to explosions. Notice they can't say non flammable.

[QUOTE=Freightshaker;15218821]I would just rather have equipment rated for it and know where it is.

We have furnaces rated for propane.Should I tell you how many homes have blown up?

Originally Posted by jdwendling

Was at the Farm store this afternoon( Rural King Supply) Large display set up with a video running promoting it. Do it yourself. Law suits waiting to happen. As far as I know Opening an A/C system requires certification. Thats screwing on a fitting opening the schrader. Going to be interesting ou there. Be SAFE.

Nice video isn't it. I scratched my head and watched it again. I never knew this stuff was so easy.

Originally Posted by oled64

I have used r22a in three unit in summer 2012. Just to test it. It is propane,but it works. Can not be mixed. Use 1oz 22a for 2 1/2 of r22. Homeowner said his elec. bill was down by 30%. pressure about the same on low side and lower on the high side.

I can't say I'm against it really. I just dont think any Joe schmoe should use it. Most people are stupid. I would just rather have equipment rated for it and know where it is. Might just be a lot better than 410A.

Originally Posted by AC5096

Time to break out the halide leak detector.

Hahaha good one! Guess I can leak check like with gas line... with a bic.

I don't know why we don't just use gasoline. Its a darn good refrigerant.

Job security. For us and the EMTs.

Was at the Farm store this afternoon( Rural King Supply) Large display set up with a video running promoting it. Do it yourself. Law suits waiting to happen. As far as I know Opening an A/C system requires certification. Thats screwing on a fitting opening the schrader. Going to be interesting ou there. Be SAFE.

Time to break out the halide leak detector.

waiting for the explosions....will be able to see ti from Canada

I have used r22a in three unit in summer 2012. Just to test it. It is propane,but it works. Can not be mixed. Use 1oz 22a for 2 1/2 of r22. Homeowner said his elec. bill was down by 30%. pressure about the same on low side and lower on the high side.