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Tonight I received the best phone call I have had in a long time. An older gentleman who owns a small shop here in town responded to a letter I sent out Friday and hired me over the phone without ever laying eyes on me. For the past 4 weeks I have been trying to find a re-entry into the industry after being away for 14 years. Yes, I was a field tech a long time ago. So much has changed, I may be less qualified in general knowledge than a rookie just pulling out of trade school. I accept that fact and must accept that anyone who interviews me will see that in less than 2 minutes. So after reading countless threads on this site about, to, or by the rookies, I took the "old guys" advice. My letter said nothing about knowing it all, finishing school, and barely mentioned that I had once been a tech. What it did say is "I want to work. I know how to work hard. I need a chance to work for you." I sent out 17 letters, all identical to all the shops in the phone book and they arrived today. I had a job by the close of the days business. I start tomorrow at 7:30. Bet your arse I will be there at 7:15 nicely dressed, shaved, and ready to work, even cleaning the shop if need be. Pay is $10/hr and I am damn proud to have it. A year from now when I am back in a truck on my own doing real work for real clients and making my boss real money, I will still be at $10/hr I bet. He needs to get his investment back. Point of my story to the rookie who started this thread is "listen to the old guy even when he doesn't make sense". It sure has saved the financial life of me, my wife, my 2 sons, and the ill parents we moved to care for. It was the very "old guys" here who rant over and over to keep your mouth shut, work hard, dont make waves, and you will get your day. Tomorrow starts mine. Good look all you rookies who read this.

p.s. Thanks all you Old Guys here.

Originally posted by air1
A wealth of knowledge that is passed on from one geration to the next and comes from years of experience. In the bay area, at the sheetmetal workers union office building is a statue of a old timer handing his sheers to a rookie. Passing the torch.

It would be nice of such were apreciated here in Texas.

Employers here seem to just think about themselves. Like they are scared little puppy dogs.


I'll spare y'all the rant.

Originally posted by Dowadudda
I am not so convinced that one needs to have a guy actually teaching them. Of course one needs chalkboard time, to go over theory, understand electricity, but that should be done at an approved school, not out on a roof or in a rack room. As you work along side someone, you learn a great deal. What is it that your waiting for, to break out in a coffee moment and have a formal instruction block on your last question? Most times as I was coming up, I would just bust my ass for who I was assisting. Watch em. Get a simple question in. I can remember well, having a long hard day, and that night going over in my mind and in my books what that guy I was working with was doing. Next day I was more on the ball. Next day it got better, so on and so forth it went.

You know you will reach a point, if your good enough to get that far, and I can tell you most don't, but if your good enough, you will reach a point where you need to teach yourself, and no one will be able to help you.

I wish I had someone like me to teach me the things I had to learn on my own when I was a rookie. I went to school and then worked as a install helper for a year. I then started runing service on my own because our tech got fired for not having a drivers license. I managed ok but I would have advance much quicker if I had been able to benifet from someone sharing the wealth of knowledge they had. A wealth of knowledge that is passed on from one geration to the next and comes from years of experience. In the bay area, at the sheetmetal workers union office building is a statue of a old timer handing his sheers to a rookie. Passing the torch.

heard a fella once repeat; when you are dealing with somone difficult and they're tellin you something, treat it like you're eatin fried chicken---chew the meat, spit the bones", in other words even if they're bein an idiot, they may have info you can use so soak it up and flush the rest...

I think passing on knowledge to a thirsty young mind is one of the most rewarding parts of the whole trade or even life in general. When there's a handfull of people that remember us with respect..it's one of the few ways we're able to live on after we're dead. When there's that connection between one who enjoys teaching and one who REALLY is eager to learn...it's a good thing.

Apprentices

Just slow me down. When I do have one, I wish to God that they would keep their trap shut about the latest snoop doggy poop singer or how they hate Bush because he's going to reinstate the draft. I wish that I could make them ride in the back of the truck while holding a sign saying "I am stupid". You're right Dice. I am old and grumpy and I danged well have earned the right to be!!"

Don't feel bad. Things could always be worse. I don't have any apprentices because if they screwed up I wouldn't criticise them, I'd bludgeon em to death.

There are a lot of disgruntled old men out there, unhappy with their lives, move on and forget it, just remember when you get older to not act like them.

its a long apprenticeship

I have worked in the hvac trade for 25 yrs . J man sheet metal , gas fitter and plumber as of recent. I am inundated by newbies as of late. It is getting hard to find many j men left out there. I am 42. The newbies I get are maybe 25. I am fed up with the feedback I get from other j men . They treat the newbies as though they were dirt. When they are fed up they send them off to someone else, and that is ususally me . Sure I have had a few nerds , but for the most part they are a good bunch who will give you a lot of effort if you treat them like humans . When I started there was that hiearchy mentality. It made me fuming mad sometimes. There was the mentality that when you got your cert 4 yrs later you were God. Wrong ! I am still learning lots everyday. I make a point to show the young guys as much as i think they can absorb, give them some skills. A little self confidence pays big dividends. The toughest kids to encourage are those who were raised by parents who gave them everything they asked for . Those parents robbed them of the work ethic. Sad .Farm kids are easier to work with. just ramblin

Dear Green, I see that you have edited your post, you say that you do not understand what some of them are saying to you. Look at the way you have put togather the wording and spelling of your post. I had a bit of a problem wadeing through what you were trying to convey.
Also I have found that new techs think that they have their own way of doing things, and don't have to listen to the sages, they think they are listening, but they are not hearing what he is saying. When you are new, you do not have an opinion, or maybe I should say that your opinion is what ever the tech says, the way HE says it is to be done. Your job is to be a gopher, a knowledge sponge, and a student that reads at home and in the truck. The jump seat is not for sleeping, it is for asking questions and listening to what the master has to say.
Grasshopper, if you will humble yourself and submit yourself to this art, you will do well.

I tell my guys I'm going to teach you everything I know so I don't have to do it anymore.

However, I don't waste time with guys that don't put out their own effort.

I hired a guy in June. At first, every time he calls me for troubleshooting, the first question I ask him he hasn't checked. After a couple months he apologizes to me saying "every time I call the first thing you ask me I haven't checked. It's really bothering me, I'm stinking this up." I say what are you doing about it. He says "I'm reading stuff every night so I get to question 2."

I tell him I don't mind helping him as long as he will put in his time, even check things he wouldn't normally consider a problem. (that's making your own experience) That way I know he gives a rat's tail, and will gain confidence and experience.

This guy had a recent callback where he tells me he is responsible, he can't in good conscience put hours on the timesheet.

The fact of the matter is he is my best guy right now. He holds himself to a higher standard. He's going to be just fine, and a bunch of years later he will laugh about it.

The trouble with alot of guys is that they want to bypass the filter/belt changing because they feel entitled, rather than take that opportunity to learn something about the equipment and move on to the next step. Music to my ears when a newbie is doing menial stuff and pulls out a meter and says something like; "I was doing the filters but noticed this and started checking..." or "that sheave on 5 was out of alignment but it's perfectly.."

I am not so convinced that one needs to have a guy actually teaching them. Of course one needs chalkboard time, to go over theory, understand electricity, but that should be done at an approved school, not out on a roof or in a rack room. As you work along side someone, you learn a great deal. What is it that your waiting for, to break out in a coffee moment and have a formal instruction block on your last question? Most times as I was coming up, I would just bust my ass for who I was assisting. Watch em. Get a simple question in. I can remember well, having a long hard day, and that night going over in my mind and in my books what that guy I was working with was doing. Next day I was more on the ball. Next day it got better, so on and so forth it went.

You know you will reach a point, if your good enough to get that far, and I can tell you most don't, but if your good enough, you will reach a point where you need to teach yourself, and no one will be able to help you.

Don't mind teaching.

But I have a problem with deaf ears. Or the "that's not my job, do I have to get dirty, I should be making more" attitude.
Love teaching, love learning. Like to have a "newbie" teach me something and I don't mean understanding M&M's lyrics.
I did have guys I showed the ropes get my work/hours. When I work for someone else.

Originally posted by green_apprentice
Why do apprentice do not get any respect in the trade? For example, senior tech are always puting us down and don"t want to teach us. Don"t get me wrong the marjority techs are helpfull but,some few i cant understand.

[Edited by green_apprentice on 11-14-2004 at 12:06 AM]

Personal respect is earned not granted. When I was an unsderclass Midshipman life was hard. And when I became an upperclassman I was hard on the underclass. I was not being just an ass, I wanted the soft or dumb ones to quit, or get the point and put in the effort to become part of the team.

The senior tech that does not try to teach the apprentice is not part of the team, sorry but you may be stuck with a looser.
Len

I was a trainer for a decade.I was always harder on the guys that showed more potential.They got more grief but it paid for them in the long run........at least three guys I have trained over the years are now running different shops.

Originally posted by Collin

Originally posted by condenseddave

Or, you could be a snot nosed whiner. I really don't know.

It's why we love the internet.

LOL. Ain't it grand?

Originally posted by condenseddave

Or, you could be a snot nosed whiner. I really don't know.

It's why we love the internet.

Originally posted by Collin

Originally posted by green_apprentice
Why do apprentice do not get any respect in the trade? .

Because you haven't earned it , ya rookie!

Or phrases like "why, why, why?" aren't confined to the message boards. I don't like sniveling apprentii, personally. I only like the ones who want to learn without crying.

That being said, the sad fact of the matter is a large portion of the current generation of service techs are barely capable of performing their own work, let alone capable of teaching someone else to do theirs. The technician shortage is worse than a lot of us realized, as there are more warm bodies dressed up as techs than there are actual techs. 98.6 was the standard for hiring service techs for way too long. Formal education in the past few decades steadily degraded until it was barely available, and too many learned what (often little) they know from Hard Knocks U, and feel that that edumicayshun as all they'll ever need. Now we're, as an industry, suffering, and looking like fools.

So, since the tide is turning, and education is improving, and new standards are popping up everywhere, from more alphabet soup clubs than there are alphabet soup govt agencies, technicians entering the field are better educated, but are unable to find people to show them how to apply their educations.

Or, you could be a snot nosed whiner. I really don't know.

Originally posted by green_apprentice
Why do apprentice do not get any respect in the trade? .

Because you haven't earned it , ya rookie!

ab is right! Sometimes I think many journeymen suffer from low self esteem and giving the apprentices a hard time makes them feel better about themselves. Hang in there and learn what you can from them.