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Originally Posted by RoBoTeq

I've always been behind the scenes, just not posting as much so as not to offend sensitive members.

Doing good. Got all of my veins removed from both legs, so I'm like a new old guy.

Glad to hear

Originally Posted by pecmsg

Good to see you back Robo
Everyone fine

I've always been behind the scenes, just not posting as much so as not to offend sensitive members.

Doing good. Got all of my veins removed from both legs, so I'm like a new old guy.

Good to see you back Robo
Everyone fine

Jeez, Coolwhipped, this thread has been reactivated for some time now. It's not 6 years old, it is 6 years running. Do try to keep up, or at least post something useful.

Sorry, forgot who I was talking to....

An oldie but a goody

You do know that this thread is 6 years old?

In Iowa they set up the state wide program, home office in the state capital, hired the office staff, bought the trucks, laptops, etc. all the stuff so inspectors could be mobile. But have never hired any inspectors because it cost to much to hire people and or pay their expenses.

It takes 8 to 12 weeks for them to answer a simple license question in writing. Need to forget about phone or email. Unless they want something.

They have fined the law breakers, Charges court filings and resolution are all public information, most everything I read was about someone failing to meet what the paperwork process needed. I did read one I thought interesting. One guy with a license hired four non licensed guys to go install gas lines to the gas meters, they all worked for a gas distribution company. They fined him a small amount and told him to hire licensed people. Now the way the code reads the gas companies are exempt from the licensing requirements because they have their own qualification programs and distribution system is owned by them. Go figure

State wide licensing, I'm in Iowa, the only good I see that has happened is I can go to any other city in the state, pull a permit if needed and do work. Therefore it opens my potential opportunities without an increase in license fees. So I could go from Davenport to Des Moines 180 mile away and or back to Cedar Rapids 90 Miles away without having a different license. I've made those trips, by the time you pay for fuel, food and housing it really does not pay off for just a couple days work in each place

Nationwide Licensing should work the same way if you could figure out how to get the bureaucrats out of the way. Not likely nationwide License would ever get everyone to agree to a code and the demonstrated skill levels and would never work out

The harder part I think does not even have anything to do with state or federal government. That is if you are in a different local for an extended period is the ability to get parts. So many of the parts houses if they don't know you will not sell you parts. The exception would be if you get your parts just from someone like a Grainger, Fergussons or Dennis Co that has a national chain, but they are not in every location.

Originally Posted by mgenius33

The law keeps legitimate companies under CONTROL, but does absolutely NOTHING for illegitimate companies.

I've heard it directly from an official, there is no money in the budget to investigate and prosecute illegitimate companies!!!

Yes....

Which just proves that govt regulation... does not work.

If the govt were serious about providing quality... there WOULD be a budget to chase down and deal with unlicensed folks.
The reality is... licensing is ONLY for revenue... nothing else.

The law keeps legitimate companies under CONTROL, but does absolutely NOTHING for illegitimate companies.

I've heard it directly from an official, there is no money in the budget to investigate and prosecute illegitimate companies!!!

Laws do two things:

They keep honest people honest....
And...
They provide a vehicle for a polecat to persecute the competition of their campaign donors.
BOTH are not good for the population.

Originally Posted by bmathews

Honestly, licensing and codes are only as good as enforcement. I've seen some pretty bad jobs that I have no idea how they passed inspection and I know they were inspected. We also have licensing in Texas. So it really is nothing more than a money grab for the cities, states, etc... I'll get a job like that sometimes, where it is so f#%ked up there is nothing to do but blow it up and start over. But nobody wants to pay and they don't want to pay for your service call. Just smile and walk away and chalk it up to being part of the job on occasion. Your life isn't going to end because of it, so don't sweat it.

Exactly,a statewide license has done really nothing to raise quality here in Tx (I've been licensed since nearly the beginning)) so another license wont help either.How much EPA enforcement on refrigerant at the small guy level do you see?

Originally Posted by Big Unit

Went on a service call yesterday for a wonderful Quietside boiler and wish I had a camera. Never seen an install this bad! Here was the list of problems I found in my 45 min. there before just telling the property owner it needs to be ripped out and re-installed.
1) Gas piping in black pipe ran across floor, not secured either, with no drip leg or shutoff, ANYWHERE!
2) No automatic fill valve, just a manual ball valve.
3) Exhaust slopes downward the whole length of the run.
4) Boiler intake stubs out of mechanical room into basement area.
5) No expansion tank anywhere to be found.
6) System has three zones with one common return. Their are no zone valves the pumps just turn on when that specific zone calls. The boiler is piped with the pumps pushing into the boiler then up what was originally supposed to be the return lines so their is no control of the zones.


Then the property owner refuses to pay because I didn't fix anything! Not my fault he's too cheap! I told him to call the original installer seeing as how it was put in 9 months ago, but he lost the guys number. Not the COMPANYS number but the GUYS number! Time to call the inspector for that city.

If you like OBcare...

You will LOVE federal licensing.

If you are getting screwed by OBcare... think twice.

Govt, historically, has ALWAYS screwed up EVERYTHING they touch.

Ya really want govt screwing up this business also?

Just do your job, inform potential customers of how you conduct business and don't sweat it when someone you believe is not being legal gets the job. If a consumer is going to use someone that bad, you don't want that person as a customer anyway.

You really have to give a lot of patience to overcome this kind of situation.

I read several different threads being commented on:

Unlicensed Hacks. I really believe it is true: Just because you have a license does not mean you are competent. I've also seen the number of Hacks doing work is proportional to how well or poor the economy is. Economy poor more Hacks. I really like the analogy of having a drivers license.

Look there are codes already in place that are the prevailing law, Uniform and International codes, the law is already there. But there are many, both unlicensed and licensed who don't understand or care what the code says or at least until someone files a law suit against them

I do not believe there should be a national licensing. What I find so unbelievable is how different the requirements are across the country to do HVAC (skilled craft) type work. To me Skilled craft means you have to be able to demonstrate you have a basic "correct" knowledge of your craft. Just because you watched a You Tube Video on how to repair a furnace blower does not mean you are competent to install a furnace and AC unit

Here's the one that really ties my shorts in a knot. Most Hacks often charge a cheap and or inexpensive upfront cost as compared to those who have followed the rules. I had friend who decided he did not want to install his own ice maker in his new refrigerator. An installer came out done in 15 minutes charged him a fairly low amount, 2/3 rds was for the parts and 1/3 was the labor. My friend could not stop complaining how simple it was to install and how much the guy charged him. He admitted he was not overcharged for the parts. But he refused to see what overheads were hidden in the labor charge, So I said: did the guy come in respectable service vehicle (yes clean and not rusted) did he have clean clothes on (yes) was the guy licensed (yes) did he have all the parts and tools he needed when he got there (yes) was the guy on time getting there (yes) was the guy in business for more than 1 year (yes 10 years) did the guy have a business address (yes and listed in the phone book, I also verified he had Workman's Compensation and Liability insurance and noticed he was register with the better business bureau). I then said the Hack brings none of that with them when they come into your home. The small amount for labor he walked out with did not meet all his overheads he did you a favor taking the work. It took the guy about a week before it sunk in

If Business and/or Homeowner would get one reference and follow up on it the Hacks would be run out of business

Originally Posted by RoBoTeq

Since this old conversation has been resurrected, I would like to repeat that the very last thing our industry needs is any more federal government intervention. It's not like anything the feds have ever done has done anything to enhance the HVAC industry. In fact, everything the feds have done has served to make our industry more difficult to work in and more expensive to the consumer with no benefits to anyone other than organizations that support the government agencies that make up regulations.

Amen.

Roy

Since this old conversation has been resurrected, I would like to repeat that the very last thing our industry needs is any more federal government intervention. It's not like anything the feds have ever done has done anything to enhance the HVAC industry. In fact, everything the feds have done has served to make our industry more difficult to work in and more expensive to the consumer with no benefits to anyone other than organizations that support the government agencies that make up regulations.

Originally Posted by ICanHas

Maybe up in the hat, asking the crown for permission to do anything feels so normal. Having to get government approval for everything and doing it by government prescribed methods isn't the idea of freedom.

There comes a point where its necessary to regulate things like deciding that we're going on the right side for the sake of keeping people from driving on whichever side they feel like driving on. We know though traffic cops have stepped over their line and turned it into a revenue center.

Truth to be told, the contractors complaining about the practice of unlicensed ones aren't concerned about the practice itself as much as the fear of competition.

A truly concerned environmentalist would be reporting neighbors' cars for having gutted out catalytic converter as often as reporting competitors to EPA for venting refrigerants.

No, it is not the fear of competition. it is the specter of unequal competition, without the same requirements, training, safety, insurance, and compensation.

The unlicensed or hack contractor allows for an unrealistic low price to alter the marketplace, and it creates a jaundiced view of the true cost of proving a service to the public.

When a baseline of service and costs are provided by requirements that everyone has to follow, we all benefit from better outcomes and a more realistic pricing structure that allows us to make a living.

Hacks are everywhere,in every profession.Teachers are well educated & licensed,but some of them are hacks.

I happen to like "hacks", licensed or not. They make money for me.They make my job more interesting and more challenging, to me.

I have a customer that I instructed him on how to install a "HotDawg" gas heater in his garage along with a Mini Split Heat Pump.I came back and verified his work. He builds his own Airplane , he builds and races his own Race cars. He is no "HACK".