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Hello guys,

does anybody know what Computrols request to become a dealer of them?

I poped a question to their site but still waitting.

By the way I am located in Greece...

Thanx

Originally Posted by kdocsr05

Hello s2sam

The 8x as you refer to is a just the controller. You would need the CBAS front end to establish the interface you desire. I will be involved commisioning two 32x controllers early next week. I will talk to the controls programer, present your questions to the source and get back to you then.

Regards

Good day kdocsr05,

Sounds good! I look forward to the info.

As for the CBAS and its N2 functionality, this is making more sense, as the controllers appeared to have a limited amount of on-board resources (not a lot of on-board memory) to accommodate a fully loaded N2 trunk on its own.

Thanks in advance for the info!

Cheers,

Sam

Hello s2sam

The 8x as you refer to is a just the controller. You would need the CBAS front end to establish the interface you desire. I will be involved commisioning two 32x controllers early next week. I will talk to the controls programer, present your questions to the source and get back to you then.

Regards

Good day kdocsr05

Given that you have been using the Computrol 8X devices, can you answer the following?

1.Can you tell us how many N2 devices can be supported by the 8X device? Their website and datasheet do not seem to say this?

2. What is the approximate cost of the 8X device?

Lastly, what is interesting is that the 8X spec sheet states that the 8X is based on the Intel 386 processor operating at 25Mhz... which is pretty impressive given the capabilities and limited resources of this device. Further, I did not even think that you could even buy 386 processors (embedded) anymore.

Cheers,

Sam

Originally Posted by amigo

another question for you:
Does this computrols interface also mean that I could theoretically put an 8X, put my N2 bus onto it and then program it to be BACnet/IP as well. Then poke it through another BACnet software to get some N2 data that way, directly from 8X controller?

Good question! Also, would you have to purchase CBAS to do this or use their "free" config tools?

EDIT: Are you limited on integration points?

Originally Posted by kdocsr05

Lets put it this way. I have several facilities running CBAS and deal with Computrols weekly

another question for you:
Does this computrols interface also mean that I could theoretically put an 8X, put my N2 bus onto it and then program it to be BACnet/IP as well. Then poke it through another BACnet software to get some N2 data that way, directly from 8X controller?

Originally Posted by kdocsr05

Lets put it this way. I have several facilities running CBAS and deal with Computrols weekly

Sounds good, thanks for confirming the information as credible.

Lets put it this way. I have several facilities running CBAS and deal with Computrols weekly

Originally Posted by kdocsr05

It is my understanding the principles of Computrols were the designers of JCI N2 protocol. I know of one government facility in the New York area that has N2 up on a CBAS Front End.

If this is the case, then their connection(s) within JCI may have given them access to the DX and VMA protocols? As has been the case since the Roman times it is not what you know, but who you know!

As for the N2 protocol... I have no idea as to its exact origins/design, but I can tell you that it is based on the Optomux-22 protocol (the N2 command and response formats anyway)

Cheers,

Sam

Originally Posted by kdocsr05

It is my understanding the principles of Computrols were the designers of JCI N2 protocol.

Is this reliable, 1st hand information?

It is my understanding the principles of Computrols were the designers of JCI N2 protocol. I know of one government facility in the New York area that has N2 up on a CBAS Front End.

Originally Posted by amigo

Hello Sam,
yes, and that is why I hope you release your BACnet/Modbus to N2 product(s) soon.
don't keep us waiting, ok

Good day Amigo,

I am trying! ... I just need to figure out how to get more hours in the day/week so we can catch up on our work/project load... Here's a hint- coffee, tea, RedBull, etc does not work!

That being said, I am working on a three new hardware architectures that will accelerate the roll-out of new products... stay tuned

Cheers,

Sam

Originally Posted by s2sam

Good day Amigo,

I, too, am curious about their DX and VMA support also well. Further, there are a lot of nuances in the N2 portion as well if one is planning on supporting of JCI specific devices... Not everything is documented within the N2 Open protocol that JCI N2 devices use/expect.

As for the DX and VMA protcols... indeed very few outside companies have these... We are one of the fortunate few that do... thankfully we got them from JCI many years ago (worked with JCI on project(s) that required us to have them) before Corporate put a stop to it. My guess is that Corporate does not want to have any additional competition to their devices.

Cheers,

Sam

Hello Sam,
yes, and that is why I hope you release your BACnet/Modbus to N2 product(s) soon.
don't keep us waiting, ok

Originally Posted by amigo

Hello Sam,
yes, I have seen the N2 open protocol document, what was interesting about these guys' interface is their claim that DX and VMA is covered in their interface.
Now I don't know this for sure, but my understanding was very very few, or if any 3rd party have ever got a legal copy of DX or VMA's protocol details from JCI. JCI keeps those babies under lock and key.

Good day Amigo,

I, too, am curious about their DX and VMA support also well. Further, there are a lot of nuances in the N2 portion as well if one is planning on supporting of JCI specific devices... Not everything is documented within the N2 Open protocol that JCI N2 devices use/expect.

As for the DX and VMA protcols... indeed very few outside companies have these... We are one of the fortunate few that do... thankfully we got them from JCI many years ago (worked with JCI on project(s) that required us to have them) before Corporate put a stop to it. My guess is that Corporate does not want to have any additional competition to their devices.

Cheers,

Sam

Originally Posted by s2sam

Good day Amigo,

No need to reverse engineer...The N2 open protocol can be requested from JCI... The DX and VMA protocols on the other hand are much less likely to be released to anyone outside of JCI.

Cheers,

Sam

Hello Sam,
yes, I have seen the N2 open protocol document, what was interesting about these guys' interface is their claim that DX and VMA is covered in their interface.
Now I don't know this for sure, but my understanding was very very few, or if any 3rd party have ever got a legal copy of DX or VMA's protocol details from JCI. JCI keeps those babies under lock and key.

Originally Posted by amigo

What is this all about? Have they reverse engineered the N2 protocol?

http://www.computrols.com/products/jci-interfacing

Good day Amigo,

No need to reverse engineer...The N2 open protocol can be requested from JCI... The DX and VMA protocols on the other hand are much less likely to be released to anyone outside of JCI.

Cheers,

Sam

Originally Posted by justjohnson

looks like a lawsuit to me - unless they somehow licensed the N2 protocol from JCI. They opened it up for 3rd parties to make slave N2 devices but the license does not include the ability to make supervisory level controllers.

Good day,

No true... unless JCI changed the license agreement. The license agreement that I have places no restrictions on the use of the N2 protocol... other than the information must be not made public, etc.

Now what is possibly a legal issue is the VMA and DX protocol usage. Although the VMA and DX devices exist on the N2 bus they do not communicate via the N2 protocol and they have their own protocols. So, unless this firm specifically requested and was granted a access/license to these protocols they could be sued... In fact this happened to very well known company... and then sometime later they were granted a license (with some $$$ changing hands ofcourse).

Cheers,

Sam

looks like a lawsuit to me - unless they somehow licensed the N2 protocol from JCI. They opened it up for 3rd parties to make slave N2 devices but the license does not include the ability to make supervisory level controllers.

Computrols' JCI Interface

What is this all about? Have they reverse engineered the N2 protocol?

http://www.computrols.com/products/jci-interfacing