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I have learned that if a customer calls me for a bid, and says he has already had a "few", that it MOST likely isnt worth my time. I'm not going to make myself the lowest bidder just to get the job any more. I'll be there repairing the low bid jobs anyways.

I cant say I will pass up on a job because it is in a crawl, a nasty spot, etc. I dont mind getting dirty...


When I worked for companies, I did alot of jobs that were not safe. I don't remember ever saying no to a job. Looking back I did some jobs that I would never think of doing today! I have made it 35 years now without breaking a bone in my body, I want to keep that streak going now that I am out of shape and getting old lol...

You couldn't be more right, safety is a bad word to many service managers. Backing yourself up with the right answers is the way to go, that is difficult to do as an early learner though. New guys just don't have experience in accidents. That is why companies like them so much....till they get them hurt!

Originally Posted by zw17

So, what kind of calls have you refused to run because of safety? I could write a book on some on the ones I have said no to.

Two jobs stood out in my mind immediately as I read this post. Great post by the way.

1. I WAS the new guy. 21, fresh out of college before my apprenticeship, working with a smarty third year apprentice installing an RTU in January late into the night. He wanted me to punch a 2.5" hole into the side of a 75 year old brick building to run the mains and stat wiring. It was in a snow bank, standing on the top step of a 6' ladder with the hammer-drill above my head... I honestly got up there and pulled the trigger... for 1/2 a second. I went back in to the building said it was stupid and he huffed and puffed and left me there, thinking he was so much better than me. He came back in 2 minutes later bleeding from his head.. "What happened?!" "I fell off the ladder and the drill landed on me!" We drove 30 miles home in silence, it was all I could do to not laugh and say "I told you so, you idiot!" That job didn't last much longer...

2. Starting off in my own business, I tended to take jobs that I was a little less than comfortable with, usually because of money, but sometimes not, but this one... At the beginning of December, some 15 years ago, I got a call from a concrete casting shop that they had a unit heater in the shop not working. I had never seen the place, let alone been inside a concrete casting factory. As soon as I got there I realized this was a job for a cherry-picker, but when I said this, the night supervisor had this bright idea to have me walk out, tools etal, no lie, 50' across the top of a two beamed crane to service this unit! No hand rails, no safeties, just a flat walk across the crane! Each beam was 2' or 3' wide with a 3' opening, which suspended the power lift between them. It was at least 100' across and rode on rails 40' or 50' in the air. I have dealt with many indoor rail cranes before but this was the biggest I had ever seen! It just happened to pass 3' below the unit heater in question.

That has been the one and only time I have ever been called a coward in this career. ("What are you, a coward?" still rings in my ears.) How I didn't pitch him down the access hole from the 5th floor, I don't know. My blood was boiling! I was out of there in 1 minute flat without a word to anyone or I swear, they would have had to shoot me to pull me off the guy.

Two months later, February, the company was up on charges for unsafe operation when one of their employees was sandwiched to death after an unsecured full-size wall casting fell flat on him.

I've said no to more than one sewage filled crawl space.

That steel roofing covered with a slight coating of snow will guarantee you a busted arse. Even a flat steel roof is almost impossible to walk on. I have to agree, a white membrane roof is slick. Even when wet.

I must be a real SOB of a Boss.....

I have no problem yanking guys outta hot attic when they don't have it ventilated, getting them down from ladders,yell at them for hauling things over the edges of roofs, or taking a call(s) so they can get to a family thingy.

Originally Posted by tinmandad

White rubber roofs??????

slightest frost can make them worse than ice

Originally Posted by zw17

No one here has encountered white rubber roofs in the winter time? If they have any kind of slope to them I refuse to work on the units.

White rubber roofs + Snow or frost = Broken bones or death

Excellent point. The first time I encountered one, was about eight years ago. It was an early morning service call for a commercial kitchen MUA unit. Anyway, I get up on the roof and noticed this nice shiny white roof job. Between the bilco hatch and the flat area of the MUA unit, was a slight slope. Not thinking much about it, I proceeded down the slope to the unit. Well, just as you stated earlier, I must have hit a patch of light frost, because I went flying off my feet. Me and my tool bag were like sleds down a snowy hill. Luckily, I and my tools slid right into the MUA, which thankfully stopped my slide. You know, I never saw any slippery surface, but how can you....its white for crying out loud.
Anyway, later on, I told the guys at the shop what had happened to me. I wanted to warn them to be extra careful around these white roofs. I could tell that some had already knew by their facial expressions. They had almost fallen on their arses too.

Originally Posted by zw17

No one here has encountered white rubber roofs in the winter time? If they have any kind of slope to them I refuse to work on the units.

White rubber roofs + Snow or frost = Broken bones or death

White rubber roofs??????

Originally Posted by bja105

New guys are much more likely to try something unsafe. No-one likes to say no to their new boss. No that I have been doing this a while, and have tenure at this company, I don't mess around. I know I won't be fired for refusing to get hurt or refusing to work in cat poop.

Dispatchers don't know what their getting you into, but they do know how many calls need to be done. The tech on the spot has to be the one to decide if something isn't safe.

Exactly. Being a 'go getter' is a great attribute in a young service tech but knowing when to say when is a even better attribute in my opinion.

Don't be scared to say no if you feel unsafe, ask for help and if refused then walk off the job.

New guys are much more likely to try something unsafe. No-one likes to say no to their new boss. No that I have been doing this a while, and have tenure at this company, I don't mess around. I know I won't be fired for refusing to get hurt or refusing to work in cat poop.

Dispatchers don't know what their getting you into, but they do know how many calls need to be done. The tech on the spot has to be the one to decide if something isn't safe.

White rubber roofs are EVIL!

I HATE them.

They blind you in the summer, blind you worse in the winter, make the ice impossible to see.

I do the 'shuffle' when I walk across them. My feet never leave the roof. I just scoot along.

No one here has encountered white rubber roofs in the winter time? If they have any kind of slope to them I refuse to work on the units.

White rubber roofs + Snow or frost = Broken bones or death

I refused one job that I can remember.

Found a header leak in a mechanial room. Also in that room was a diesel tank that the maintenance team had seriously overfilled. The room stunk so bad it almost made me ill. I called in and said "No way am I lighting a torch in that room."

Went back the next day and, after the room was clear, fixed the leak.

Nice post. The company Im at wont let us do unsafe stuff. If there is no way to service it safely, we wont service it. The safety director will come out and look at the jobsite and tell the customer what they need to do to remedy the unsafe situation. If they wont , no service. A workmans comp claim costs alot more than your going to make on a service call or two.

Guess i am lucky..my boss is pretty cool about those kinds of things..i will work in rain..will not in lightning. he has even said "its going to be lightening, that call can wait till this afternoon when the storms have passes" I cant reach with the 12 foot steap ladder "i will send one of the apprentices with the lift..have them stay there and help then send him back here when u are finnished"

When to say "NO", how to say "NO", and the jobs you have said "NO" to...

The word "No". It's quite possibly the first word we learn as children but now that we are grown adults it's quite possibly the word we hate to hear the most.

We have all worked for them, the boss that treats you as a number, whether it be a truck number, sales number, or profit for the company number you are just a number. These are the bosses that put you at risk and can get you hurt or worse, killed. So how exactly do you protect yourself against these types of people? The word "No".

I was in the trade for maybe 10yrs when I met my 1st "numbers boss", he was a real wanker and pushed the company line firm and hard. He was the type of guy that would keep you from seeing your sons 1st baseball game to run a service call because it had been on the books since 9am and the dispatcher had forgotten about it, to him it was all about the money, no human compassion what so ever. It was a Friday afternoon around 3pm, the first warm day of spring and you are itching to get done with work to start a great weekend of warm weather, I call in to clear my last call and tell them to have a nice weekend when he comes over the Nextel and advises me that they had one more call on the books and I would need to run it, I am heated but drive across town to get someone some A/C.....

It was a 10 story condo building and by the time I arrived the sky's to the west had gotten dark, it was a typical mid spring thunderstorm rolling in as they do every year here in Ohio. As I took the elevator to the 9th floor and introduced myself to the customer the storm had closed within a mile of the building. The customer explained that the A/C stopped working a week ago (typical right? Wait until Friday to call) and they had no idea what was wrong. I went through my standard indoor procedures, check the filter, make sure the blower is working, check for a call for cooling, insure the coil isn't a ball of ice, etc... Everything checked out, so off to the roof I go....

To access the roof you needed to take the freight elevator to the 10th floor which was a mechanical penthouse, from there you could walk out on the rubber membrane roof though a set of double doors. As I stepped off the elevator I was rocked by the first clap of thunder and thought to myself, "How lucky you are, this will wait until Monday!" Not according to my boss... I got on the Nextel and rang up Mr. Humanitarian and advised him that due to inclement weather we would have to reschedule, he rudely shot back that this was a high profile customer and we needed to fix the issue at all costs. This is where I could have told him to shove it but I remembered learning from an old timer that you never say "NO" without a solution.... So I gathered my thoughts and keyed up on the mic... "John, I really don't feel safe going out on the roof in a lightening/rain storm in a sea of copper and steel to troubleshoot a live 480v unit, if I am to do this I will need a second person on overtime to insure my safety, a full protective arc flash suit, and I would like to see certification that the lightening rod system on this building is current and in good working order"

Bam! I had beat him at his own game. They were all valid requests and he didn't have much wiggle room, actually he had none because I wasn't going out on that roof no matter what he said. Needless to say he got back on the horn after a 2 minute pause and told me the dispatchers would reschedule it for Monday. That service manager later got a guy hurt by sending him into a house with two aggressive dogs, the tech got chewed up pretty bad and had a legal suit filed against the company. I no longer work with the company because of the manager in question.

The moral of the story is this...

If you feel unsafe DON'T DO THE JOB, WALK AWAY, but before you walk away come up with a solution or even two solutions, that way you don't get blamed for being a lazy tech looking for excuses to not work.

Example: Boss asks you to service a AHU up in a warehouse ceiling 20' high. You have nothing but a extension ladder to reach it but you must balance the ladder against a I-beam next to the unit and lean a good 3' over the rail. Obviously not a good idea. Instead of saying, "F%#$ this my boss is a dirty a##hole" Gather you thoughts and call him advising him that you have no safe way to service this unit with what you have, suggest that a man lift with be easier and safer, leave the ball in his court and wait for his response. Now if he comes back and says that a lift just isn't in the budget and the unit needs work today, well then you have to stand your ground and let him know that under no circumstances will you be breaking OSHA rules to service this unit and you leave it at that.

Remember folks, no job is worth losing your health or life....

So, what kind of calls have you refused to run because of safety? I could write a book on some on the ones I have said no to.