Reply to Thread

Hi guys, bklyntek here, since we are coming into 2012 summer, hope im not too late. but do you have an economizer and have you checked to make sure its working. the economizer provides an addtl. 20' of subcooling and it is programmed to activate above 95'f ambient temps. Hope this helps out.

Code 5 trips

I have 2 of the same machines you are having problems with. I found that the wiring to the motor sensors were run in the same conduit as the power feeds to the compressors. I ran new wiring in separate conduit to the sensors and eliminated most of my problems. In addition the economizer TEVs and solenoid valves have been a problem causing high temperature gas to be poured into the crankcase directly onto the motor windings.

I feel that these units are high maintenance items. The original condenser fan motors love to spin bearings because of the aluminum construction of the motor body. Oil filters, capacity control valves, transducer and broken slide valve springs have also been common. We have found that the compressors are field servicable if you have the time and you don't mind yanking the beast out of the unit. I don't do bearings but valve springs and motor windings in the case of a winding short are not too bad.

Good luck my brother in York pain

Originally Posted by HJ Controls

You need to check the embedded compressor temperture sensors. You either have a bad sensor or your compressor is getting to hot. Also check to see if your economizer txv is set or working properly. If you have a bad sensor I think the only way to fix it is installing a resistor. I cant remember the values. But you can call teck support and get it.

Also check the connections of C, S1, S2, and S3 in the comp. terminal box. If the resistance is high due to a bad connection, the motor protector sees it as a high motor temp. There's a lot of water condensation going on in there. If this is the case when you fix the connections, be sure to put some liquid rubber on them to prevent future rusting.

You need to check the embedded compressor temperture sensors. You either have a bad sensor or your compressor is getting to hot. Also check to see if your economizer txv is set or working properly. If you have a bad sensor I think the only way to fix it is installing a resistor. I cant remember the values. But you can call teck support and get it.

Monday I will try to get the design spec's for the chiller.
It was tripping on high motor temps, even before I pulled out some refrigerant.
After the first time I had this problem summer 09, I came back when the conditions were right, all fans running and system fully loaded step 75, and removed some refrigerant to get my SC between 10 and 15deg,( closer to 10 deg ) to hopefully keep my discharge pressures a little lower next time we had a spike in ambient temp.
Sub cooling out of the economizer was 25deg and the SH was 13deg. average last summer...2010 in all the systems during the melt down day...

Thanks for the info on the 2ACE module good stuff....

After re reading your thread, it sounds like high motor temp trips with a code 5. This may be helpfull!!!

Your original post is confusing- are you tripping on high pressure, or high motor temperature?

You took 20 lbs of gas out of each circuit, and now you have zero subcooling at high condensing temperatures. Is the zero subcooling causing high superheat which is causing a lack of compressor motor cooling, giving a high motor temp alarm?

Your subcooling is lost at ambients above 105. 105 and higher zero subcooling. 95 degrees and you have 10 degrees- is there a correlation? hmm. what is the design ambient for the condenser coil, 95 or 105?

"Cutout" and "DSCH Unload" are still at factory settings...399 and 375..

The clearences are good as per the IOM, as I did look into that.
I went over the settings with the factory and confirmed that they were ok.
We have washed the coils inside out, and never get much dirt out of them.
These chillers are still near new, approx. 4000 hrs. average between all the circuits. They were installed in 2000, and the site was never completed do to the .com bust.
They were powered up but not running for 8 years. So the coils are in great shape, you can see clean alluminum. In 2009 we commissioned both chillers.
It is a little hard getting information on these chillers likley do to there vintage ,York has moved on to newer things..
I planned to set the "DSCH Pressure Unload" down to around 300 and try to spead the load out over the other circuits on the hottest days, but am I masking a real problem??
Running 300 plus discharge pressure's for hours is causing the "High Motor temps."
I need to get the design spec's., and see if I'm trying to fix something thats not really broken..363 days out of the year they work great.

D I S C H A R G E P R E S S U R E
C U T O U T = 3 9 5 . 0 P S I G
D I S C H A R G E P R E S S U R E
U N L O A D = 3 7 5 . 0 P S I G

What your are your settings.

Are you reverse washing the coils from the inside out ? and also someone else spoke of clearence do you have enough ?

Those #'s are out of the IOM and yes they are correct the SB0022 is incoorect the factory would tell you to use the IOM settings they are the lastest.

Did They trip on "High motor temp." or "High DSCH Pressure"? The ambient reading I was getting was from my Fluke meter. I checked the clearances and looking at the IOM manual we are good there..I also checked the air entering temp. on the condensers and found it to be same as the outdoor temp. The coils are cleaned regularly. These units have the louvered panels over the coils and around the compressor sections. We remove them to wash the coils. The manual does state that there will be a 3% capacity loss with this option installed. So I'm guessing it is because they are restrictive. My customer like's the sercurity they give do to the fact these chillers sit at ground level. I may be pulling them off in the summer months, or at least the side that is not exposed to the parking lot. I will call monday and get the design spec's. I will pull 201.19-NM2 (204) and check the settings again. Is (SB0022) incorrect?
Thanks for the input....

This is what I have now..

System 1&2
Motor current , 176amps =100% MP= 2.85volts =125% (2ACE MP OL Value Set @128)
System 3&4
Motor current , 199amps=100% MP= 3.20volts =125% (2ACE MP OL Value set @144)

Where are you getting ambient temp reading at? Off of chiller? Where is this chiller installed in relation to any building structures etc... What im getting at as recirculated condenser disharge air?????

Reason im asking is I had one that would trip 2 circuits similar situation. After reviewing clearances around chiller, the chiller ended up to close to the building structure wall, and had to be relocated to solve problem. It was definately a challenging situation, but I had to threaten the void warranty unless they moved chiller, and eventually they did. Problem solved.

FORM 201.19-NM2 (204) this is the form that you should be setting your motor protectors and your mp voltage up in micro panel at the very least verify those settings not SB0022 call and find out if can get the design spec's for that Chiller then you will know what your dealing with.

just curious....how often do you wash the condenser coils. If your condenser is dirty it will throw your subcooling way off.

It actually was over a 111deg. last sept. 27 for one day, I had 108deg air entering the condenser, but my problems started around 1o5deg.
I think its design is 95deg. but I am still trying to confirm that.
SH on the display was 13deg. step 40, from memory..I will pick up the log book next week to get some better info here..
I feel my main goal is to see how I can keep my condensing temperature down. If it's the parameters causing my main problem, blocking the condenser may not help me know.
I hope someone has actually performed this repair (SB0022) in the past and had some desirable results to share. It came out in in 2002, so I'm sure it's been awhile since anyone may have done this. Like I said before,York seemed to not want to go with this SB0022 as being part of the problem.
I'm still concerned that I have some issue with low noise fans being used in a high ambient area, but I can't find anything on that...
SD CA. it is always rainy,windy,tornados,earth quakes, and haunted,,,76 today...

ycas but I've seen machines that pressure is very high, generally up 275psig, oil levels are correct, the refrigerant charge is right, not recirculated air condenser, to repair leaks reached 500 microns

Get the design ambient on your condenser, simulate that temp, and charge to 15 degrees F subcooling. What you don't say is what your suction superheat is (or anything else, for that matter). It would be very helpful to have a good operating log posted at full load conditions if possible, along with the design data if you have it. What part of the world are you in, that it gets to 105+ and stays there? And it's "just" 74 degrees in February? It was "just" 21 at my house this morning....

Wow! It gets hot here, heat index may get to 100-101 but no temps above or around 105 for a period of time, so I feel for you man. Needless to say, i haven't had the need to change any of these parameters. I would go ahead and follow through with all the steps listed in SB0022. Mainly to check it before you get to your "critical" time of year, lower your leaving water temp setpoint to ensure loading of machine and disable some condenser fan motors or block a portion of your coils to get your head pressure up above 300 psig to immulate your high ambient conditions and see if that helps or changes anything. Atleast you'll be able to spot it before it actually gets >100 deg ambient. Sounds like with temps that high that your condenser fans just can't keep up, would be the same thing as insufficient airflow across your condenser coil and that would most definitely make your subcooling low. Let us know if this works for you as I'm curious of your situation. Hope that helps and good luck!